18 replies to this topic

[gene]

Hey, Defiance:
I’ve been told that I’m too honest for my own good.  This post should prove it.

I wanted to open (reopen?) a friendly debate with you, and come backed up by heavy artillery.  I tried to gather an army from a blues forum that I’m a member of, but I failed.  The thread appears dead, now, so here it is:  (I’ve edited the thread title and all names ‘cept mine.):

Ignorant Man Needs Education


 Gene: First of all, there is absolutely no derogatory intent behind the word "ignorant." It simply means "not knowing."

This is just a little thing that bugs me. On a Doors fan forum, there is a person who states over and over (like a mantra) that the Doors are a blues band. I'm a HUGE Doors fan, and I like the blues. However, stating that the Doors are a blues band bugs me simply because it's incorrect. (I even get bugged when somebody calls a chimp a monkey.)

I've tried to explain (12 bar, I-IV-V),but to no avail. I would like for you blues guys with credentials to state who you are and how you know your stuff (Your credentials) to explain why the Doors are not a blues band...or to state why they are, if you believe so. Granted, the Doors have covered a number of blues songs and have written a couple, themselves, but IMP, that does not make them a blues band.

I will copy/paste this post and responses to the fan forum. I'm kinda afraid to post a link to here...but I might, if pressed....Unless you guys say nope.

(Please be polite and informative.)
Last Edited on 11-Jun-2012 3:32 AM



Will: Not all blues is 12 bar but the structure does not make a genre. There is 12 bar pop, punk, rock as well as blues. Just because it came from blues doesn't mean it can't be applicable to anything. 


I would wager the doors to be at the very least extremely influenced by blues. Clearly not a straight ahead blues band but very blues ish
Miles It is common knowledge that they are a rock band. If he doesn't know this yet, not much you can do will change his stance, as there is an exorbitant amount of times they were referred to as rock.

It will be like changing a moon-landing denier's stance. It will never happen.


Tuck: I'm with Miles. You're just wasting your time trying to convince him.


Ted: The Doors, especially Jim Morrison and guitarist Robby Krieger, were greatly influenced by Blues Masters; there are plenty of songs that have Muddy Waters and John Lee Hooker and Howlin' Wolf stamped all over them. What made the Doors interesting , though , was that they experimented and combined their blues influences with other musical styles-- hard rock, Kurt Weil, samba, jazz and classical--and other art mediums, specifically drawing influence from the theatrical ideas of Antonin Artaud , and the poetry of Rimbaud and other French Symoblist bards. The result, predictably, was a mixed bag and they did record more than a few pretentious songs that haven't aged especially well. They were, though, often enough right in their instincts as in what and how to fuse their blues and non-blues inclinations: they created a music that was uniquely their own. No one sounded like them before, and no one has matched them since. This is the kind of thing 60s rock bands did as a matter of course--beginning from a blues base and then expanding the form until something new and original is created. The Doors, I would say, are definitely and profoundly influenced by the Blues, but their music, as a whole, is something else, best called "rock".
----------


Bob: The Doors are first, last, and always a rock band. They may be playing sokme blues tunes, but the things that seperates real blues grooves from rock grooves, even if they both are playing 12 bar blues (and there are many blues tunes that are NOT 12 bar blues) is how the groove and feel is being played and groove is often times a lot harder to truly learn than a solo, and the solos have to properly fit within context of groove and feel.

Rock bands tend to blend things somewhat more ecclectically and there is more of an "everything fits no matter what" attitude in the music, but once you're playing outside of the rock context, all bets are off and that's why many of them often sound out of place when they get into other genres because, again, learn groove and feel is a lot tougher to do.

How many rock bands are able to play behind the beat, which is the real blues groove?? Very, very few of them can and 95% of the time, they're gonna be playing on top or ahead of the beat, plus you hear a lot of things being phrased off the 1 & the 3, whereas blues (and manyh black musics as a general rule) is often gonna be phrased off the 2 & the 4.

What I'm telling you ain't gonna be explained in rock instructional materials and often is not well taught or taught at all in many music schools, including classical music conservatories or Berklee College of Music, which specializes as a jazz school, tho it has tons of heavy metal guys studying there.

The way rock bands uses space is so very different than what real blues is alone is a difference that matters and many rock musicians just don't get it.
----------
Sincerely,
Bob
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte


Reed: "All you people, you know the blues got a soul
Well this is a story, a story never been told
Well you know the blues got pregnant
And they named the baby Rock & Roll

Muddy Waters said it, you know the blues got a soul
James Brown said it, you know the blues got a soul
Well the blues had a baby and they named the baby rock & roll

Ray Charles said it, you know the blues got a soul
John Lee Hooker said it, you know the blues got a soul
Well the blues had a baby and they named the baby rock and roll

Otis Redding said it, you know the blues got a soul
Queen Victoria said it, you know the blues got a soul
Well the blues had a baby and they named the baby Rock n' Roll. "

-Muddy Waters
----------
Go ahead and play the blues if it'll make you happy.
-Dan Castellanet


Gene: How many people wanting to hear blues would plug in a Doors CD without going to a specific blues track? Ya know...Doors music in general? Any?


___________________________________________________
___________________________________________________



So, the general consensus is that blues cannot be defined by specific parameters, as I thought it could.  There’s a lot of subjectivity involved.  So the answer to the question, “Is (‘so & so’) blues?”   is “Do YOU think it is?”

So with the knowledge garnered from that thread, I know that I’m kinda wrong when I say the Doors ain’t blues, and you’re kinds right when you say they are.  In my mind they absolutely are not a blues band.  In your mind, they absolutely are.

So please do me a small favor:  Stop calling them a blues band as though it were absolute fact.  (No big deal, really…Just a small pet peeve--Like that “chimp/monkey” thing I alluded to in the thread.  

Peace  V

Edited by gene, 13 June 2012 - 09:49 AM.

[*~adrienne~*]

gene, on 13 June 2012 - 09:35 AM, said:

Hey, Defiance:
I’ve been told that I’m too honest for my own good.  This post should prove it.

I wanted to open (reopen?) a friendly debate with you, and come backed up by heavy artillery.  I tried to gather an army from a blues forum that I’m a member of, but I failed.  The thread appears dead, now, so here it is:  (I’ve edited the thread title and all names ‘cept mine.):

Ignorant Man Needs Education


 Gene: First of all, there is absolutely no derogatory intent behind the word "ignorant." It simply means "not knowing."

This is just a little thing that bugs me. On a Doors fan forum, there is a person who states over and over (like a mantra) that the Doors are a blues band. I'm a HUGE Doors fan, and I like the blues. However, stating that the Doors are a blues band bugs me simply because it's incorrect. (I even get bugged when somebody calls a chimp a monkey.)

I've tried to explain (12 bar, I-IV-V),but to no avail. I would like for you blues guys with credentials to state who you are and how you know your stuff (Your credentials) to explain why the Doors are not a blues band...or to state why they are, if you believe so. Granted, the Doors have covered a number of blues songs and have written a couple, themselves, but IMP, that does not make them a blues band.

I will copy/paste this post and responses to the fan forum. I'm kinda afraid to post a link to here...but I might, if pressed....Unless you guys say nope.

(Please be polite and informative.)
Last Edited on 11-Jun-2012 3:32 AM



Will: Not all blues is 12 bar but the structure does not make a genre. There is 12 bar pop, punk, rock as well as blues. Just because it came from blues doesn't mean it can't be applicable to anything. 


I would wager the doors to be at the very least extremely influenced by blues. Clearly not a straight ahead blues band but very blues ish
Miles It is common knowledge that they are a rock band. If he doesn't know this yet, not much you can do will change his stance, as there is an exorbitant amount of times they were referred to as rock.

It will be like changing a moon-landing denier's stance. It will never happen.


Tuck: I'm with Miles. You're just wasting your time trying to convince him.


Ted: The Doors, especially Jim Morrison and guitarist Robby Krieger, were greatly influenced by Blues Masters; there are plenty of songs that have Muddy Waters and John Lee Hooker and Howlin' Wolf stamped all over them. What made the Doors interesting , though , was that they experimented and combined their blues influences with other musical styles-- hard rock, Kurt Weil, samba, jazz and classical--and other art mediums, specifically drawing influence from the theatrical ideas of Antonin Artaud , and the poetry of Rimbaud and other French Symoblist bards. The result, predictably, was a mixed bag and they did record more than a few pretentious songs that haven't aged especially well. They were, though, often enough right in their instincts as in what and how to fuse their blues and non-blues inclinations: they created a music that was uniquely their own. No one sounded like them before, and no one has matched them since. This is the kind of thing 60s rock bands did as a matter of course--beginning from a blues base and then expanding the form until something new and original is created. The Doors, I would say, are definitely and profoundly influenced by the Blues, but their music, as a whole, is something else, best called "rock".
----------


Bob: The Doors are first, last, and always a rock band. They may be playing sokme blues tunes, but the things that seperates real blues grooves from rock grooves, even if they both are playing 12 bar blues (and there are many blues tunes that are NOT 12 bar blues) is how the groove and feel is being played and groove is often times a lot harder to truly learn than a solo, and the solos have to properly fit within context of groove and feel.

Rock bands tend to blend things somewhat more ecclectically and there is more of an "everything fits no matter what" attitude in the music, but once you're playing outside of the rock context, all bets are off and that's why many of them often sound out of place when they get into other genres because, again, learn groove and feel is a lot tougher to do.

How many rock bands are able to play behind the beat, which is the real blues groove?? Very, very few of them can and 95% of the time, they're gonna be playing on top or ahead of the beat, plus you hear a lot of things being phrased off the 1 & the 3, whereas blues (and manyh black musics as a general rule) is often gonna be phrased off the 2 & the 4.

What I'm telling you ain't gonna be explained in rock instructional materials and often is not well taught or taught at all in many music schools, including classical music conservatories or Berklee College of Music, which specializes as a jazz school, tho it has tons of heavy metal guys studying there.

The way rock bands uses space is so very different than what real blues is alone is a difference that matters and many rock musicians just don't get it.
----------
Sincerely,
Bob
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte


Reed: "All you people, you know the blues got a soul
Well this is a story, a story never been told
Well you know the blues got pregnant
And they named the baby Rock & Roll

Muddy Waters said it, you know the blues got a soul
James Brown said it, you know the blues got a soul
Well the blues had a baby and they named the baby rock & roll

Ray Charles said it, you know the blues got a soul
John Lee Hooker said it, you know the blues got a soul
Well the blues had a baby and they named the baby rock and roll

Otis Redding said it, you know the blues got a soul
Queen Victoria said it, you know the blues got a soul
Well the blues had a baby and they named the baby Rock n' Roll. "

-Muddy Waters
----------
Go ahead and play the blues if it'll make you happy.
-Dan Castellanet


Gene: How many people wanting to hear blues would plug in a Doors CD without going to a specific blues track? Ya know...Doors music in general? Any?


___________________________________________________
___________________________________________________



So, the general consensus is that blues cannot be defined by specific parameters, as I thought it could.  There’s a lot of subjectivity involved.  So the answer to the question, “Is (‘so & so’) blues?”   is “Do YOU think it is?”

So with the knowledge garnered from that thread, I know that I’m kinda wrong when I say the Doors ain’t blues, and you’re kinds right when you say they are.  In my mind they absolutely are not a blues band.  In your mind, they absolutely are.

So please do me a small favor:  Stop calling them a blues band as though it were absolute fact.  (No big deal, really…Just a small pet peeve--Like that “chimp/monkey” thing I alluded to in the thread.  

Peace  V

Interesting post. I've always thought the doors were heavily INFLUENCED by the blues but never as a blues band at all. I mean Led Zep covered lots of blues songs but they're classic rock I would NEVER think of them as a blues band...although I can see how easily one could get that confused...I've always thought of the doors as the first real punk band that ever existed...father I want to kill you mother...i want to...lol...i mean during the late 60s who else was singing about oedipus complex...everything from back then was about sunshine and rainbows...i think jim would take that as a complement though that someone even thought they were a blues band...just my opinion for what it's worth.

[imperialistpig]

They were a rock band but they played some standard blues songs ("Backdoor Man", "Roadhouse Blues", etc.) and songs influenced by blues ("Maggie McGill", Changeling", etc.). Most rock guitarists use the blues scale and blues licks and that includes Robbie Krieger who used a lot of blues licks. "LA Woman", "People are Strange", "Wild Child", "You make me real", "My eyes have seen you" and others are full of blues guitar riffs including blues slide guitar.

And Adrienne: You don't need to quote the person before you. Everyone understands who you're replying to!

Edited by imperialistpig, 13 June 2012 - 11:50 PM.

[Defiance]

imperialistpig, on 13 June 2012 - 11:49 PM, said:

They were a rock band but they played some standard blues songs ("Backdoor Man", "Roadhouse Blues", etc.) and songs influenced by blues ("Maggie McGill", Changeling", etc.). Most rock guitarists use the blues scale and blues licks and that includes Robbie Krieger who used a lot of blues licks. "LA Woman", "People are Strange", "Wild Child", "You make me real", "My eyes have seen you" and others are full of blues guitar riffs including blues slide guitar.

And Adrienne: You don't need to quote the person before you. Everyone understands who you're replying to!

I like that she quoted it, because it means she can look at it while she replies, and it saves a copy of the post should anything happen to the original.

I hear Latin Jazz in the riff on 'My Eyes Have Seen You', but then again, Blues is the basis of Jazz. Jazz also contained something called the 'Spanish Tinge', which is what is heard in 'St. Louis Blues' during the bridge (i.e. 'St. Louis woman with her diamond rings, leads her man around by her apron strings'). This Spanish Tinge came from the Caribbean island influence in New Orleans music.

The basis of Jazz is Blues/Field Holler/Work Songs mixed with Gospel and Military Marching music. The leftover instruments from Civil War bands provided the brass for early developers of Jazz some time around the turn of the century. All that was needed in order to turn regular music into Jazz was the element of improvisation.

A Rock band, in the case of The Doors, means that they are Blues. Rock is Blues. We don't say that The Doors are 'Blues-Rock' since the Rock part implies Blues in regards to a band such as The Doors, Cream, or Canned Heat.

A Rock band in the case of The Beatles means that they experimented with sound around the 1965 period. Rock is a genre that gets back to basis of Rock n Roll. As of 1965, Rock n Roll had been around for 10 years already and thus is started to stray into pop. Rock was a way to drop the 'soft' aspect of Rock n Roll.

The Animals were really the first Rock band.

[gene]

"The blues had a baby and they named it rock & roll."
-Muddy Waters

[Defiance]

*~adrienne~*, on 13 June 2012 - 02:33 PM, said:

Interesting post. I've always thought the doors were heavily INFLUENCED by the blues but never as a blues band at all. I mean Led Zep covered lots of blues songs but they're classic rock I would NEVER think of them as a blues band...although I can see how easily one could get that confused...I've always thought of the doors as the first real punk band that ever existed...father I want to kill you mother...i want to...lol...i mean during the late 60s who else was singing about oedipus complex...everything from back then was about sunshine and rainbows...i think jim would take that as a complement though that someone even thought they were a blues band...just my opinion for what it's worth.

Classic Rock is not a genre, it is merely an era or time period lasting from 1962-1980 (i.e. the years of Lennon's productivity).

Janis, in 1967, was hardly rainbows and sunshine. Have you seen her at Monterey Pop and how Mama Cass has her jaw dropped in amazement over Joplin's singing of 'Ball and Chain'?

Lots of Classic Rock is Blues. That is not to say that a lot of Blues is Classic Rock. Only a few Blues songs can be considered Classic Rock, with one example being 'The Thrill Is Gone' by BB King. It is Blues, but it is Rock at the same time because of the elements of the recording. Therefore, 'The Thrill is Gone' is a Blues song that is done by a Blues artist and which qualifies as Classic Rock since it comes out in 1969.

Led Zep is Classic Rock, but they are a Blues band within the era of Classic Rock.

Classic Rock include the genres such as Jazz-Rock, Blues, Rock n Roll, Reggae, Folk, Folk-Rock, etc...

Edited by Defiance, 14 June 2012 - 02:09 AM.

[Defiance]

gene, on 14 June 2012 - 01:06 AM, said:

"The blues had a baby and they named it rock & roll."
-Muddy Waters

Yes, Rock & Roll is Blues just as Jesus is Lord. It wasn't until Rock & Roll started getting trendy that it backed off from Blues somewhere around 1960, and that is what cleared the way for The Beach Boys. They took the Rock & Roll of Chuck Berry and combined it with Folk as well as with the Soul sounds of Black harmony groups.

Mind you, Chuck Berry is Blues as well as being Rock & Roll. It is all about how you look at it.

12 bar blues and the I IV V progression is very important, but you must understand that Blues comes from Work Songs and Field Holler which does not rely on that type of structure. When I say Blues, I mean just the Blue note, or Bent note which is what makes up the Blues at its most basic level. Many singers don't know chords, so the I IV V is not going to help them.

Melodies are not important in Blues. A melody in Blues should be compressed down to one or two tonal zones so that singers such as Jim Morrison and Billie Holiday can sing it despite their having very narrow vocal ranges.

Blues can be complex with chord changes and melodies like how it is in a Blues band, or Blues can be simple like a man in the field with just the cotton and his voice.

Muddy Waters started as simple Blues in the South, he got complex up North in Chicago, then he went Rock during the late 60s with an acid-album.

Muddy was Blues throughout the late 60s, but the experimental record he made turned out to be a Rock record due to the back up band's sound.

Your 'Blues forum' friends seem to try and define Blues at the expense of removing God. Blues without God is just R&B.... or worse, it is Country.

Edited by Defiance, 14 June 2012 - 02:26 AM.

[gene]

Defiance, on 14 June 2012 - 01:49 AM, said:

Classic Rock is not a genre, it is merely an era or time period lasting from 1962-1980 (i.e. the years of Lennon's productivity).

Janis, in 1967, was hardly rainbows and sunshine.

Lots of Classic Rock is Blues. That is not to say that a lot of Blues is Classic Rock. Only a few Blues songs can be considered Classic Rock, with one example being 'The Thrill Is Gone' by BB King. It is Blues, but it is Rock at the same time because of the elements of the recording. Therefore, 'The Thrill is Gone' is a Blues song that is done by a Blues artist and which qualifies as Classic Rock since it comes out in 1969.

Led Zep is Classic Rock, but they are a Blues band within the era of Classic Rock.

Classic Rock include the genres such as Jazz-Rock, Blues, Rock n Roll, Reggae, Folk, Folk-Rock, etc...

I agree with all of that, but remember:  These are not fact; they are opinions.

"Have you seen her at Monterey Pop and how Mama Cass has her jaw dropped in amazement over Joplin's singing of 'Ball and Chain'?"
YES!!!!!  I LOVE THAT CLIP!!

[Defiance]

gene, on 14 June 2012 - 03:21 AM, said:

I agree with all of that, but remember:  These are not fact; they are opinions.

Then there are no facts anywhere.

I don't have an opinion on God, so therefore how can I have an opinion on Blues?

One can not have opinions on God. We can not question his wisdom. If he sends a Hurricane to New Orleans, he had reason.

Blues is only between a person and God. People in an audience can witness Blues at a concert, but a player does not actually play Blues.

No one can 'play' Blues....the person plays a guitar and Blues is the effect that is heard and/or felt.

We have to remember, your friends' idea of Blues is a Northern one, or an electric Chicago version. They seem to ignore the Delta. Based on what you shared, they have an almost Liberal view of Blues.

The Liberals must be fought; they seek to ruin art with the creation of an Artists Union which would include all musicians and musical artists.

Edited by Defiance, 14 June 2012 - 06:55 PM.

[gene]

LOL!! I have an opinion on "God."  But I'd best keep it to myself...

[Defiance]

gene, on 15 June 2012 - 12:12 AM, said:

LOL!! I have an opinion on "God."  But I'd best keep it to myself...

There are no quotes around God for he is the creator. He has always been.

No opinion can be had by you on HIM.

Please say it though, that which can not be said. Don't worry, you can try, but you won't actually be saying anything about God.

[gene]

Defiance, on 15 June 2012 - 08:49 AM, said:

There are no quotes around God for he is the creator. He has always been.

No opinion can be had by you on HIM.

Please say it though, that which can not be said. Don't worry, you can try, but you won't actually be saying anything about God.

While there is no rule in the posting guidelines specifically stating that religion is not to be discussed, there seems to be no forum on the message boards where religion would be considered an appropriate topic.

However, I did find this rule/guideline:
" 2) We like to stay "on topic" in the Doors forums, so please try to stick with the topic at hand. If you want to have a "personal conversation" with another member, please do it via private messages and not on the board."

"...If you want to have a "personal conversation" with another member..."
No, thank you.

[gene]

Defiance, on 15 June 2012 - 08:49 AM, said:

There are no quotes around God for he is the creator. He has always been.

No opinion can be had by you on HIM.

Please say it though, that which can not be said. Don't worry, you can try, but you won't actually be saying anything about God.

While there is no rule in the posting guidelines specifically stating that religion is not to be discussed, there seems to be no forum on the message boards where religion would be considered an appropriate topic.

However, I did find this rule/guideline:
" 2) We like to stay "on topic" in the Doors forums, so please try to stick with the topic at hand. If you want to have a "personal conversation" with another member, please do it via private messages and not on the board."

"...If you want to have a "personal conversation" with another member..."
No, thank you.

[Defiance]

gene, on 16 June 2012 - 07:35 AM, said:

While there is no rule in the posting guidelines specifically stating that religion is not to be discussed, there seems to be no forum on the message boards where religion would be considered an appropriate topic.

However, I did find this rule/guideline:
" 2) We like to stay "on topic" in the Doors forums, so please try to stick with the topic at hand. If you want to have a "personal conversation" with another member, please do it via private messages and not on the board."

"...If you want to have a "personal conversation" with another member..."
No, thank you.

I said God, not religion. Don't confuse the two.

If you want to discuss Blues, then you get a discussion on God. That is just how it is.

I now see that you actually have nothing to say on God. Apparantley you were misleading me.

You ask me to please not refer to The Doors matter of factly as a Blues band.

I am not dealing with facts when it comes to Blues and God.... just with what is. The Doors falls in between those two things. An eclipse brings them together.

You sound like you have nothing more to say regarding Blues. That is too bad. You made a whole thread and now you want to quit because you aren't ahead.

I don't merely think that The Doors are a Blues band, I base it on evidence. It is what is visible.

Edited by Defiance, 16 June 2012 - 07:45 AM.

[gene]

I said what I had to say, I never care how long or how short a thread turns out to be.  To quote what I've heard about other stuff:  The thread should be like a woman's dress: Long enough to cover the subject, but short enough to cover the subject.  As far as I can tell, the conversation has run its course, and has drifted into religion/God (whatever).  I'm not interested in discussing religion or having it crammed down my throat.  So yeah, I'm "quitting."

How did I mislead you?  Here's what I said:
"LOL!! I have an opinion on 'God.' But I'd best keep it to myself..."
Sounds to me like I couldn't have said it any more clearly! ...  "But I'd best keep it to myself..."


"An eclipse brings them together."  WTF??!!

[Defiance]

gene, on 17 June 2012 - 03:59 AM, said:

I said what I had to say, I never care how long or how short a thread turns out to be.  To quote what I've heard about other stuff:  The thread should be like a woman's dress: Long enough to cover the subject, but short enough to cover the subject.  As far as I can tell, the conversation has run its course, and has drifted into religion/God (whatever).  I'm not interested in discussing religion or having it crammed down my throat.  So yeah, I'm "quitting."

How did I mislead you?  Here's what I said:
"LOL!! I have an opinion on 'God.' But I'd best keep it to myself..."
Sounds to me like I couldn't have said it any more clearly! ...  "But I'd best keep it to myself..."


"An eclipse brings them together."  WTF??!!

If The Doors are not to be a Blues band, then Muddy's Chess era group is not to be a Blues band either.

It could be argued that simply because of the fact that Muddy plugged in his guitar, that it was no longer 'Delta' Blues. If it was no longer 'Delta' Blues, then it was not Blues at all. Some Blues people will say that Blues is acoustic only.

I am not interesting in discussing religion either, thus I have not brought it up...... but you certainly have in your own sneaky way.

God is the creator. He is on one side, like the sun. Blues is on the other side, like the moon. The Doors are the Earth and an eclipse happens when Blues moves between God and The Doors.

Jim got songs from God. They were given most freely when Jim took legal LSD circa 1965.

You don't have anything to keep to yourself. A human is not capable of having an opinion on God. Therefore, when you say that you will keep your opinions to yourself, I know it is because you have no thought to base a reply on in the first place.

Whatever God is, he just is..... regardless of man and woman, which is why he created marriage for that man and woman. No one has the authority to change marriage since it is from God. If that doesn't open your mind, then consider that God put Adam to sleep and took a rib from him and made woman.

The one thing that God can not do is be less than he is.

When I say Blues, I am referring to a music that is 150 years or more old and existed for many years as its essence, the Blue-note, or Bent note. It didn't have a name until 1903, but it still existed prior to that date none the less. When you say Blues, you are referring to an early to mid-20th century genre that had by that time developed a full band sound with lead and rhythm guitar, as well as bass, saxophone, harmonica, and drums.

In music theory, Blues would just be a flat 3rd, or bIII. In order to get to it, one can either bend up, or bend down, but said note bending is always done as a way to mimic the human voice.

Jimi Hendrix came along and used something called Micro-tonal bending, as did Brian Jones and Mike Bloomfield, the latter of whom you will hear in the song below should you care to make the connection.

Blues only became a I IV V progression in the 20th century, before that, it was simply the interval: I-bIII, which equates to a vocal line.

There is no proof that The Doors are Blues, so one must make their own decision based on evidence.

It isn't up to me to try and convince you or those guys on that other forum. They already have their minds made up... so good luck to them. We can only pray that they aren't Liberals since that would only be double-trouble for them under the Lord.

My message is to young people who still are asking questions.

This is The Doors' sonic signature.......sound familiar? It should.

Edited by Defiance, 17 June 2012 - 07:07 AM.

[gene]

"I am not interesting in discussing religion either, thus I have not brought it up...... but you certainly have in your own sneaky way."

Name-calling is not allowed, so let me put it this way:  That's a fucking lie.  Every bit of it.

That's as far as I read in your post.

Edited by gene, 17 June 2012 - 09:40 AM.

[Snowdrop]

gene, on 17 June 2012 - 08:53 AM, said:

"I am not interesting in discussing religion either, thus I have not brought it up...... but you certainly have in your own sneaky way."

Name-calling is not allowed, so let me put it this way:  That's a fucking lie.  Every bit of it.

That's as far as I read in your post.

Topic goes from Blues to "Defiance wants to discuss religion" & forum guidelines.

It was simply God & Blues, you later implied "religion" to it.

Have you though ever heard of the philosopher Spinoza who rationally acknowledged God?

Point is anyone can rationally acknowledge without it ever being religion/religious.

God therefore exists independently of religion. Just think of it that way, nothing bad.

[Defiance]

gene, on 17 June 2012 - 08:53 AM, said:

"I am not interesting in discussing religion either, thus I have not brought it up...... but you certainly have in your own sneaky way."

Name-calling is not allowed, so let me put it this way:  That's a fucking lie.  Every bit of it.

That's as far as I read in your post.

Go back and you will see that you were the first to speak of religion, therefore it is not a lie. You opened the Pandora's Box.

You are now proud of your inability to follow along? Pride comes before the Fall. Aren't you the one who brought in the whole Monkey-man evolution thing into this thread about Blues? You imply that I don't know the difference between a chimp and a monkey, yet you want to try and say that man is descended from apes? Sounds like someone has priorities mixed up. God made man in his image.

The Doors as a Blues band is an example of Providence, wherein God reaches his hand down into human affairs. This was a serendipitous occasion since L.A. plays a part in Prophecy.

The reason you won't read anymore is because you have no counter-argument. Even if you won't be able to prove me wrong, we can just talk like two opposing NBA players do, like Derrick Fisher letting D-Wade know what is really up.

We can only pray that the Miami Heat and LeBron James choke and freeze tonight in Game 3 as bad as you did in this thread when faced with formidable opposition.

Religion=Islam

I would agree with you that Islam has no part in this discussion, so thus I have abstained from mentioning religion (Islam). The only time I did mention it was to say that I will not engage in a religious discussion with you.

Can we move past this now?

You will still have to account for all of your flawed logic regarding basic Blues if you enter back into the thread octagon with me.

Edited by Defiance, 17 June 2012 - 10:33 PM.