29 replies to this topic

[GG Morrison]

After Jim's death, the guys struggled to carry on as the Doors with a different type of sound, then disbanded altogether.  What I would like to know from some of the older people who were aware of the music scene of the 70's--because I don't remember myself--is what you remember of Jim's image or the Doors' legacy before NOHGOA came out.  Were the Doors remembered as just another flash-in-the-pan 60's psychedelic band with a few radio hits?  Did you know back then, before the term "classic rock" was bandied about in the 80's, that the Doors' music had a timeless appeal and find new fans through the years, like Pink Floyd, the Beatles, the Stones, etc.?  What went through YOUR head whenever you heard Doors songs played on the album rock stations of the 1970's?

Probably til the '80's, I only remembered "Light My Fire" and "Touch Me" from my childhood and my brothers having the 45's.  It was much later that I identified "Love Me Two Times" and other well-known Doors songs as Doors songs, and I'm still finding Doors songs that I've never heard.  As for Jim's image, I had only ever seen the Young Lion shots since the 80's, as by 1972, when I started reading fanzines, Jim was no longer a teen idol--only ever was one briefly--and at age 11-12, I probably wouldn't have connected the name "Jim Morrison" to the 2 songs that I remembered.  

Seems that the notorious book came out, 10 years later, the movie, and now Jim has a fairly well known image, correct or not.  So, what did you think of when you heard the Doors in those few quiet years between Jim's passing and the release of NOHGOA?

[Roughie]

GG Morrison, on 22 April 2012 - 09:16 PM, said:

After Jim's death, the guys struggled to carry on as the Doors with a different type of sound, then disbanded altogether.  What I would like to know from some of the older people who were aware of the music scene of the 70's--because I don't remember myself--is what you remember of Jim's image or the Doors' legacy before NOHGOA came out.  Were the Doors remembered as just another flash-in-the-pan 60's psychedelic band with a few radio hits?  Did you know back then, before the term "classic rock" was bandied about in the 80's, that the Doors' music had a timeless appeal and find new fans through the years, like Pink Floyd, the Beatles, the Stones, etc.?  What went through YOUR head whenever you heard Doors songs played on the album rock stations of the 1970's?

Probably til the '80's, I only remembered "Light My Fire" and "Touch Me" from my childhood and my brothers having the 45's.  It was much later that I identified "Love Me Two Times" and other well-known Doors songs as Doors songs, and I'm still finding Doors songs that I've never heard.  As for Jim's image, I had only ever seen the Young Lion shots since the 80's, as by 1972, when I started reading fanzines, Jim was no longer a teen idol--only ever was one briefly--and at age 11-12, I probably wouldn't have connected the name "Jim Morrison" to the 2 songs that I remembered.  

Seems that the notorious book came out, 10 years later, the movie, and now Jim has a fairly well known image, correct or not.  So, what did you think of when you heard the Doors in those few quiet years between Jim's passing and the release of NOHGOA?

An American Prayer came out in 78.

[the_manassa_mauler_1919-'26]

GG Morrison, on 22 April 2012 - 09:16 PM, said:

After Jim's death, the guys struggled to carry on as the Doors with a different type of sound, then disbanded altogether.  What I would like to know from some of the older people who were aware of the music scene of the 70's--because I don't remember myself--is what you remember of Jim's image or the Doors' legacy before NOHGOA came out.  Were the Doors remembered as just another flash-in-the-pan 60's psychedelic band with a few radio hits?  Did you know back then, before the term "classic rock" was bandied about in the 80's, that the Doors' music had a timeless appeal and find new fans through the years, like Pink Floyd, the Beatles, the Stones, etc.?  What went through YOUR head whenever you heard Doors songs played on the album rock stations of the 1970's?.....

.....Seems that the notorious book came out, 10 years later, the movie, and now Jim has a fairly well known image, correct or not.  So, what did you think of when you heard the Doors in those few quiet years between Jim's passing and the release of NOHGOA?

understanding the status of the doors during post paris-pre NOHGOA era has a lot to do w/ identifying those who got beached, those who went below & they who fed on the carcasses as the tide carried the stranded back out...

for ex., the doors, from a commercial sound had already changed direction post soft parade-->la woman. They were already ahead of that curve of where rock would be the next 3 years. songs like roadhouse blues & changeling were a gritty sound the stones later crystallized by '72 & distilled from thru '78. To a lesser extent, natively, bands like the eagles & zz top would mine from that same ore & go mainstream cashing in thru '80.

megaloths like zepplin & the who would expand to their musical end by '75, then bloat & feed thru '79. ditto floyd post DSOM thru the wall. lesser players, such as the airplane, the dead, the kinks etc would also peak early or mid decade & drag the nets for the rest of the '70's.

though the decade had its fair share of well crafted rock, one could make a strong case that by '73ish the established players were played out & for the most part were spewing carcasses w/ enough viable air to flap around for 3-5 more years.

music can many times reflect the culture itself, & by this point Amer & the West were adrift in watergate, nam shame & hippiedom death... the culture had become nihilistically craven eating upon itself, for no other reason then exhaust. sure the music could still rock, but it had lost its ability in many cases to enthrall.

to find life blood you had to go where the backlash was blistering. skin was rawest in punk & early glam, even some early disco. as vacuous as that dance form was in theme, early on at least, in the best clubs, it could lay claim to a beating heart, far from the dead tick wh/ stadium rock had morphed into by '76.

so where did, what was left of the doors, play during that era? at least above & on the surface it rang--> Death.

Yet retrospectfully, residing beneath, where the lava flowed was good food for later food to the Body.

imo, la woman's most transcending component was its genius in timing & honesty... whether conciously or not, it yielded its fruit, symbolically, only minutes before the tide started slipping back to the sea (fishermen of course know thats where the trophies are found).

what was left on the beachfront in music as bubbles were surfacing in paris 8 monthes later & the tide was heading back to sea?- whale rot.

LA woman clocked in right before the turn. its why material like Car hiss, Lamerica, WASP & certain cryptic phrases in the more listened to pieces stand stronger over time. They elicited insights that foreshadowed viscerally changes that would entomb the culture & its music only a couple of year later...

its important imo, & points to your query, that when jim died, though it was news, many quickly jerry rigged the narrative that he & their music symbolically was little more then the last horse jettisoned off a bloated '60's rock star ship. The waxen L'enfant, face up sinking, air trickling from his nose as his image disappears quickly into the deep. it was this legion, the lester bangs of journalism, who willfully & even gleefully tried to frame the good ship doors sunk for good as '71 came to an end.  

Yet blindly, they missed that it was the doors who in late '70 had actually read the eyes, played the last card, called the bluff & left the table before it all folded.

There were others also who read the jack of hearts, took the doors paris lights down deep post laWoman.
who murmored & passed the light below as 2ndtermNixon/ford/carter years played out??? ...

those who made punk visceral. those who saw value in holding blue/jazz/beat lenses for blakean amer landscape. they knew, what many now know, that it was the doors, even in overplayed spectacle that scratched white light from caves walls. held it up w/ belief & abandon & hissed into the eyes of those who tried to cut off their hands.

p smith, the stooges, early cooper, mc5, copolla in napalm mediation, de palma & amer streets saw, etched & projected foward w/o echoed voice up above. yet they tilled the soil thru the mid part of that decade and cultivated grounds ripe for growth.

1/2 score later, post boomer-->generation x... who do they look back upon to summon up the new from below?

as college radio emerges '77 on,  it was the doors & the velvets who were being played as artistic past signposts on such airwaves as bands like rem & u2 found their bearing--- not the fossilized remains of zep, airplane or the who. Is it any wonder bands like x, black flag & generation x were soaking up the doors as their own visions germinated? the keepers of the flame went deep w/ the goods & the next dug it up anew as punk waned but richer sounds yet virile emerged.

the doors legacy was they were sought for guidance as wise elders, not the living dead.

NOHGOA,  the ray card thru to a weak docum. may spell explotive doom as we speak... yet I cant help to think jim's mischevious grin of amer insight wont wash its face up again in the moon light of the amer magic 8 ball. will soul indeed beat money?... as many now, close to the ground, feeling splinters giving way as flesh to cotton coin goes razormen to blood in the streets... time may very well have finally tracked us down. Children of Men, mad max or straight dogs of hell- pick your dooms day tale. In such times, Word trumps even song. Who will be read for amer vision if the plug is pulled?

Edited by the_manassa_mauler_1919-'26, 24 April 2012 - 12:51 AM.

[GG Morrison]

the_manassa_mauler_1919-, on 24 April 2012 - 12:20 AM, said:

understanding the status of the doors during post paris-pre NOHGOA era has a lot to do w/ identifying those who got beached, those who went below & they who fed on the carcasses as the tide carried the stranded back out...

for ex., the doors, from a commercial sound had already changed direction post soft parade-->la woman. They were already ahead of that curve of where rock would be the next 3 years. songs like roadhouse blues & changeling were a gritty sound the stones later crystallized by '72 & distilled from thru '78. To a lesser extent, natively, bands like the eagles & zz top would mine from that same ore & go mainstream cashing in thru '80.

megaloths like zepplin & the who would expand to their musical end by '75, then bloat & feed thru '79. ditto floyd post DSOM thru the wall. lesser players, such as the airplane, the dead, the kinks etc would also peak early or mid decade & drag the nets for the rest of the '70's.

Well, the Airplane morphed into a completely different band, despite retaining some original members, and this after going through a quiet period of their own for several years.  The Dead had few radio hits, and were rarely heard where I live.

Quote

though the decade had its fair share of well crafted rock, one could make a strong case that by '73ish the established players were played out & for the most part were spewing carcasses w/ enough viable air to flap around for 3-5 more years.

I don't know, I think rock meant something else by the mid-70's than it did in the mid-late 60's.  All these bands evolved from the point at which they started, they HAD to, or they would be oldies acts in a very short time.

Quote

music can many times reflect the culture itself, & by this point Amer & the West were adrift in watergate, nam shame & hippiedom death... the culture had become nihilistically craven eating upon itself, for no other reason then exhaust. sure the music could still rock, but it had lost its ability in many cases to enthrall.

I agree that a lot of the idealism and adventuristic spirit of the 60's had chilled down, and more young adults became "responsible" and settled into more conventional lifestyles.  If there were "protest" songs going on about Watergate, etc, I don't remember them.  And in the 60's, protest songs and "message" songs were on the forefront.  The only artist I think of is Marvin Gaye and his "What's Going On" album.  But that album was really a continuation of the 60's outlook, as it was just 1971 or so when it was out.

Quote

to find life blood you had to go where the backlash was blistering. skin was rawest in punk & early glam, even some early disco. as vacuous as that dance form was in theme, early on at least, in the best clubs, it could lay claim to a beating heart, far from the dead tick wh/ stadium rock had morphed into by '76.

so where did, what was left of the doors, play during that era? at least above & on the surface it rang--> Death.

Yet retrospectfully, residing beneath, where the lava flowed was good food for later food to the Body.

imo, la woman's most transcending component was its genius in timing & honesty... whether conciously or not, it yielded its fruit, symbolically, only minutes before the tide started slipping back to the sea (fishermen of course know thats where the trophies are found).

what was left on the beachfront in music as bubbles were surfacing in paris 8 monthes later & the tide was heading back to sea?- whale rot.

LA woman clocked in right before the turn. its why material like Car hiss, Lamerica, WASP & certain cryptic phrases in the more listened to pieces stand stronger over time. They elicited insights that foreshadowed viscerally changes that would entomb the culture & its music only a couple of year later...

its important imo, & points to your query, that when jim died, though it was news, many quickly jerry rigged the narrative that he & their music symbolically was little more then the last horse jettisoned off a bloated '60's rock star ship. The waxen L'enfant, face up sinking, air trickling from his nose as his image disappears quickly into the deep. it was this legion, the lester bangs of journalism, who willfully & even gleefully tried to frame the good ship doors sunk for good as '71 came to an end.  

Yet blindly, they missed that it was the doors who in late '70 had actually read the eyes, played the last card, called the bluff & left the table before it all folded.

I agree the Doors were at the top of their game when it all ended.

Quote

There were others also who read the jack of hearts, took the doors paris lights down deep post laWoman.
who murmored & passed the light below as 2ndtermNixon/ford/carter years played out??? ...

those who made punk visceral. those who saw value in holding blue/jazz/beat lenses for blakean amer landscape. they knew, what many now know, that it was the doors, even in overplayed spectacle that scratched white light from caves walls. held it up w/ belief & abandon & hissed into the eyes of those who tried to cut off their hands.

p smith, the stooges, early cooper, mc5, copolla in napalm mediation, de palma & amer streets saw, etched & projected foward w/o echoed voice up above. yet they tilled the soil thru the mid part of that decade and cultivated grounds ripe for growth.

1/2 score later, post boomer-->generation x... who do they look back upon to summon up the new from below?

as college radio emerges '77 on,  it was the doors & the velvets who were being played as artistic past signposts on such airwaves as bands like rem & u2 found their bearing--- not the fossilized remains of zep, airplane or the who. Is it any wonder bands like x, black flag & generation x were soaking up the doors as their own visions germinated? the keepers of the flame went deep w/ the goods & the next dug it up anew as punk waned but richer sounds yet virile emerged.

Yes, I believe these bands related to that dark side.  How they discovered relatively obscure--by then--music is a mystery, but then, they didn't grow up in Houston.  

Quote

the doors legacy was they were sought for guidance as wise elders, not the living dead.

NOHGOA,  the ray card thru to a weak docum. may spell explotive doom as we speak... yet I cant help to think jim's mischevious grin of amer insight wont wash its face up again in the moon light of the amer magic 8 ball. will soul indeed beat money?... as many now, close to the ground, feeling splinters giving way as flesh to cotton coin goes razormen to blood in the streets... time may very well have finally tracked us down. Children of Men, mad max or straight dogs of hell- pick your dooms day tale. In such times, Word trumps even song. Who will be read for amer vision if the plug is pulled?

[GG Morrison]

Roughie, on 23 April 2012 - 01:03 AM, said:

An American Prayer came out in 78.

I don't really think of that as a Doors album.  I think the guys unearthed Jim's recordings of his poems, and thought, hey, here's something we can do.  I don't know if Jim ever intended for the others to be involved with them.  He seemed to make a point of recording them away from the band, so I don't think of AAP as a collaborative effort.

[Roughie]

GG Morrison, on 26 April 2012 - 02:24 AM, said:

I don't really think of that as a Doors album.  I think the guys unearthed Jim's recordings of his poems, and thought, hey, here's something we can do.  I don't know if Jim ever intended for the others to be involved with them.  He seemed to make a point of recording them away from the band, so I don't think of AAP as a collaborative effort.

No I don't believe Jim intended the guys to be involved, just like HWY, but it did bring some attention back to The Doors. And look at the timing, not long before NOHGOA

Edited by Roughie, 26 April 2012 - 08:38 PM.

[the_manassa_mauler_1919-'26]

GG Morrison, on 26 April 2012 - 02:18 AM, said:

I don't know, I think rock meant something else by the mid-70's than it did in the mid-late 60's.  All these bands evolved from the point at which they started, they HAD to, or they would be oldies acts in a very short time.

the point I was trying to make in re to these bands is they had exhausted themselves as far as creative spark and artistic relevance to the latter decade as oppossed to their creative stage 5-10 years earlier. I'm not trying to run them down necessarily, but the culture and industry itself had changed a lot from the late '60's- thru the mid '70's & they were only treading water by that point. time had peeled back the skin of the movement from wh/ they emerged & what was left didnt fit well into a time where either crass exploitation or raw anger was both more honest & vital.

if you notice, I didnt mention dylan or neil young, b/c imo, they didnt stagnate, but actually evolved. both to call out all the collateral damage w/in and around them (after the gold rush/blood on the tracks) & then to come to some level of peace that was both lifesaving yet honestly relevant (dylan's embracing Christianity for ex. when it was a very unpopular move in the circles he came up his mid '60's heyday).

to the stones credit, though their creativity suffered, at least they didnt try to fake their exploitation of the coke/$/fame whoredom that was celebridom '70's. rather they reveled in a way in wh/ they tried to keep the honesty of the music reflective of the scene. Even floyd, a band who later imo became septically bloated (the wall is vastly overrated imo) did much the same by calling out what the commercial side of rock had become w/ money.

the doors interest, thankfully died in this period at least in mainstream commercial rock. punk, defined however the zietgest of an honest nerve of what culture at evolved into. cynical raging venom was artistic honesty at that point if you wanted to call a spade a spade. it was mainly underground in the usa, but its impact was moving the needle. that is fundamentally the world in wh/ the doors where still looked at and listened to as a relevant signpost. its imo why by '69-'71, morrison's boorish honesty was hated by many of his peers in the industry. he both directly and indirectly was already exposing & foreshadowing the hypocrisy of tendicies of his era wh/ would quickly turn to rot by the mid '70's.

GG Morrison, on 26 April 2012 - 02:18 AM, said:

I agree that a lot of the idealism and adventuristic spirit of the 60's had chilled down, and more young adults became "responsible" and settled into more conventional lifestyles.  If there were "protest" songs going on about Watergate, etc, I don't remember them.  And in the 60's, protest songs and "message" songs were on the forefront.  The only artist I think of is Marvin Gaye and his "What's Going On" album.  But that album was really a continuation of the 60's outlook, as it was just 1971 or so when it was out.

I'm a firm believer that at its best rock can be an art form. not highbrow, but a raw nerve, reflective of its era & cultures passions & obstructers. the reason bands like the dead & the airplane imo didnt age well into that decade imo is b/c they didnt reflect the spearhead of the cultural change, nor could they really speak to the new condition itself.

again, im not trying to castigate them, i'm simply pointing it out. & by the way its not an easy task to do when the industry itself many times holds resistence to a band doing that. its difficult to step into another era's sensibilities and still maintain raw nerve relevancy. neil young did, but few others did or can. & whose to say if morrison had lived, the doors would have or couldve summoned up the energy and discipline to their artistic vision to pull that off.  

GG Morrison, on 26 April 2012 - 02:18 AM, said:

I agree the Doors were at the top of their game when it all ended.

imo, yes and no.

artistically and thematically, yes. la woman is getting stronger w/ time b/c it is so reflective of the dread that was starting to drift like mustard gas over la & that generation. also well before many called it or could even see it. I always felt dylan did that to some degree w/ blonde on blonde, but I thought it was more of a calling out of false personal position of leadership to an era & the bs of the era sensibilities.  la woman seemed to take it one more step & expose the dread that was starting to set into place, both personally & culturally w/ in the society itself.

the band was also very tight & progressed their sound.

however, physically morrison's wreckage was already starting to leak into the music & was causing collateral damage to their work. mentally for him, imo la woman was some of his best work, but voice wise & even energy wise it was strained & didnt always serve the album well. clearly it sent signals, that he was rapidly heading over the bridge.

Edited by the_manassa_mauler_1919-'26, 27 April 2012 - 01:11 AM.

[the_manassa_mauler_1919-'26]

Roughie, on 26 April 2012 - 08:38 PM, said:

No I don't believe Jim intended the guys to be involved, just like HWY, but it did bring some attention back to The Doors. And look at the timing, not long before NOHGOA

apocolypse now was also very important to bring the doors back up to artistically respected mainstream surface. the movie was a dystopic vision of that war & the end was the perfect backdrop score.

also, the post baby boomer generation was starting to come of age then. they seemed to split into 2 forms of fans:

ones who wanted to embrace the romanticism of the '60's & others were intrigued by morrison's punk like disorder stand & indirect sneer to the romanticism itself.

ironically perhaps, but in reality two contrasting mindsets that would later butt heads.

for the romantic followers (who actually came after the latter by about 2 years), electra served them up well. morrison's looks, clips exposed on mtv & a tidy greatest hits package wh/ leaned much more on the commercial appeal of the doors was repacked and sold very well. it should also be mentioned, ray did his best to market jim w/ some level of hippie sensibilities so that the guru 60's fascination wh/ interested the romantics who werent old enough to grow up in it, would allow them to think jim was down w/ that. bottomline, it worked well in re to selling a lot of records & creating a resurgance of name recognition. but it hurt the doors in re to respect amongst critics and those in the other camp.

that other psot baby boomer camp who dug morrison's screw you attitude to authority & the more beat driven of his work also dug into the archives and checked the doors out. this allowed the doors pre mtv to have already gotten exposure on college radio by '78. it was this camp that also listened to amer prayer & got the apocolypse now angle & also the influence on the punk movement. that group though in many cases seemed to get sea sick by the time stone's movie came out as the marketing angles to the romantic camp mentioned above cut greatly into the edge of the band.

Edited by the_manassa_mauler_1919-'26, 27 April 2012 - 01:31 AM.

[Roughie]

Yes that also drew a lot of people in to The Doors after seeing that movie. You may be interested to know they at first planned to use only Doors music in the film.

[Just Another Dark Witness]

Interesting post, because those were my early adult years. Not many people cared about The Doors during those 10 years. Not much on the radio. People were into Bowie, Elton John, and lots of other stuff. Hey, I did what I could on my end to turn people onto The Doors, but it was a tough sell. I'm surprised more wasn't done from the band's end, but I guess it wasn't important enough, or the whole ending of the band and Jim dying needed some time to sort itself out.

I had taped 2 Doors shows, taken cool pix at The Aquarius show, and NO one cared! Couldn't GIVE that stuff away. Oh, I also had like 400 pro shot pix I took at Manzarek and Butts Band solo shows. Again, no one cared. I was so pleased when American Prayer came out, Then NOHGOA, and it all started ramping up again and hasn't slowed down since! I told people in the 70's that The Doors were the band. I kind of knew it in my soul, that they would achieve the kind of everlasting fame that they have now. And that Jim would rise to the rank of ROCK GOD. I told Ray in 1988, that in the end, it would be The Beatles & The Doors. He smiled.

[manhime]

Just Another Dark Witness, on 28 April 2012 - 10:58 PM, said:

Interesting post, because those were my early adult years. Not many people cared about The Doors during those 10 years. Not much on the radio. People were into Bowie, Elton John, and lots of other stuff. Hey, I did what I could on my end to turn people onto The Doors, but it was a tough sell. I'm surprised more wasn't done from the band's end, but I guess it wasn't important enough, or the whole ending of the band and Jim dying needed some time to sort itself out.

I had taped 2 Doors shows, taken cool pix at The Aquarius show, and NO one cared! Couldn't GIVE that stuff away. Oh, I also had like 400 pro shot pix I took at Manzarek and Butts Band solo shows. Again, no one cared. I was so pleased when American Prayer came out, Then NOHGOA, and it all started ramping up again and hasn't slowed down since! I told people in the 70's that The Doors were the band. I kind of knew it in my soul, that they would achieve the kind of everlasting fame that they have now. And that Jim would rise to the rank of ROCK GOD. I told Ray in 1988, that in the end, it would be The Beatles & The Doors. He smiled.

NOHGOA  stands for?

[Encuentro]

manhime, on 29 April 2012 - 01:30 AM, said:

NOHGOA  stands for?

No One Here Gets Out Alive.

[manhime]

Encuentro, on 29 April 2012 - 03:01 AM, said:

No One Here Gets Out Alive.

Thank You.

[GG Morrison]

Just Another Dark Witness, on 28 April 2012 - 10:58 PM, said:

Interesting post, because those were my early adult years. Not many people cared about The Doors during those 10 years. Not much on the radio. People were into Bowie, Elton John, and lots of other stuff. Hey, I did what I could on my end to turn people onto The Doors, but it was a tough sell. I'm surprised more wasn't done from the band's end, but I guess it wasn't important enough, or the whole ending of the band and Jim dying needed some time to sort itself out.

I had taped 2 Doors shows, taken cool pix at The Aquarius show, and NO one cared! Couldn't GIVE that stuff away. Oh, I also had like 400 pro shot pix I took at Manzarek and Butts Band solo shows. Again, no one cared. I was so pleased when American Prayer came out, Then NOHGOA, and it all started ramping up again and hasn't slowed down since! I told people in the 70's that The Doors were the band. I kind of knew it in my soul, that they would achieve the kind of everlasting fame that they have now. And that Jim would rise to the rank of ROCK GOD. I told Ray in 1988, that in the end, it would be The Beatles & The Doors. He smiled.

See, that's exactly what I was wondering, if, during those years, the Doors were remembered as just another has-been band that came to a sad end back in 71 and nothing more.  I am often surprised that things like the FOF and HWY footage survived, because I can imagine that whoever had it would not be able to imagine a time when it would become marketable or usable for anything (don't know what the plans were for it in the first place) and thank goodness, it was all saved.  So hard to believe, now that we're all clamoring for more, that you couldn't interest people in your photos and stuff back then, JADW.

I think the arrival of MTV helped to get the ball rolling, too. Before everybody and his dog were doing videos, there were only a relative few out there, and MTV had a lot of empty air time to fill.  In those days, MTV leaned toward album rock-type stuff, plus new wave bands infrequently seen on tv.  I remember one of the earlier MTV shows was called "Closet Classics" and that's when you would see Jimi Hendrix and stuff like that.  I don't remember seeing Doors videos then, but by the mid-80's, Ray(?) had brushed up some of the old footage and from it, put together some videos.

[Encuentro]

GG Morrison, on 29 April 2012 - 10:25 PM, said:

See, that's exactly what I was wondering, if, during those years, the Doors were remembered as just another has-been band that came to a sad end back in 71 and nothing more.  I am often surprised that things like the FOF and HWY footage survived, because I can imagine that whoever had it would not be able to imagine a time when it would become marketable or usable for anything (don't know what the plans were for it in the first place) and thank goodness, it was all saved.  So hard to believe, now that we're all clamoring for more, that you couldn't interest people in your photos and stuff back then, JADW.

I think the arrival of MTV helped to get the ball rolling, too. Before everybody and his dog were doing videos, there were only a relative few out there, and MTV had a lot of empty air time to fill.  In those days, MTV leaned toward album rock-type stuff, plus new wave bands infrequently seen on tv.  I remember one of the earlier MTV shows was called "Closet Classics" and that's when you would see Jimi Hendrix and stuff like that.  I don't remember seeing Doors videos then, but by the mid-80's, Ray(?) had brushed up some of the old footage and from it, put together some videos.

Dance Of Fire, released in '85, was an obvious attempt to market The Doors to the MTV generation.

[the_manassa_mauler_1919-'26]

Roughie, on 28 April 2012 - 03:39 AM, said:

Yes that also drew a lot of people in to The Doors after seeing that movie. You may be interested to know they at first planned to use only Doors music in the film.

i'm glad coppola decided not to do that. It wouldve diluted the impact of how effective the end was. it wouldve been interesting to see in his hands, b/c there's no doubt he wouldve done some interesting things w/ other scenes correlating w/ various themes he developed in the movie ( for ex. the song strange days may have worked very well). but could any of it top the end?, very doubtful, thus seemingly too dilutive of an overall impact.

speaking of an entire score, michael mann did it w/ one of the miami vice episodes. it didnt surprise me b/c i see doors influence thematically in some of his work. my quess is, he was always a big doors fan. that said, the overall effectiveness in the episode had its moments, but seemed too diffused in the end.

Edited by the_manassa_mauler_1919-'26, 30 April 2012 - 10:20 PM.

[the_manassa_mauler_1919-'26]

Just Another Dark Witness, on 28 April 2012 - 10:58 PM, said:

Interesting post, because those were my early adult years. Not many people cared about The Doors during those 10 years. Not much on the radio. People were into Bowie, Elton John, and lots of other stuff. Hey, I did what I could on my end to turn people onto The Doors, but it was a tough sell. I'm surprised more wasn't done from the band's end, but I guess it wasn't important enough, or the whole ending of the band and Jim dying needed some time to sort itself out.

I had taped 2 Doors shows, taken cool pix at The Aquarius show, and NO one cared! Couldn't GIVE that stuff away. Oh, I also had like 400 pro shot pix I took at Manzarek and Butts Band solo shows. Again, no one cared. I was so pleased when American Prayer came out, Then NOHGOA, and it all started ramping up again and hasn't slowed down since! I told people in the 70's that The Doors were the band. I kind of knew it in my soul, that they would achieve the kind of everlasting fame that they have now. And that Jim would rise to the rank of ROCK GOD. I told Ray in 1988, that in the end, it would be The Beatles & The Doors. He smiled.

dark witness or others who were alive and viewing participants of the rock scene then... you were there & obviously a big fan of not only the band but quite aware of the entire scene then, interested in your takes w/ the doors & that scene.

questions:

- while morrison was alive how big were the Doors influence & respect wise amongst rock fans in comparison to other touring acts from '67-'71? For ex. w/in those parameters, where did they rank behind the stones & hendrix (im not counting the beatles b/c they werent touring by then) in comparison to bands like the airplane, ccr, csny, cream, joplin, the who, early zep, santana etc.

- secondly, was the miami trial a real big story general rock fans talked about, like lets say, altamont, or was it a backburner story that quickly seemed to fade?

-did people seem to think the doors were fading fast post miami as morrison gained weight & the band changed their persona, or did morrison hotel & la woman seem to firmly reestablish them?

-lastly, was morrison's death talked about as much as hendrix & joplin?

[GG Morrison]

I remember a song by the Righteous Brothers, "Rock and Roll Heaven," that came out in '74, fairly soon after the 27 Club plus Jim Croce, etc, died, and Jim is mentioned:

"Jimmy gave us rainbows
And Janis took a piece of our hearts
And Otis brought us all to the dock of a bay
Sing a song to light my fire
Remember Jim that way
They've all found another place
Another place to play"

(I don't know if "Jimmy" is meant to be spelled "Jimi" or if they're referring to Jim Croce, as I don't know all the songs by either.)

[the_manassa_mauler_1919-'26]

GG Morrison, on 29 April 2012 - 10:25 PM, said:

See, that's exactly what I was wondering, if, during those years, the Doors were remembered as just another has-been band that came to a sad end back in 71 and nothing more.  I am often surprised that things like the FOF and HWY footage survived, because I can imagine that whoever had it would not be able to imagine a time when it would become marketable or usable for anything (don't know what the plans were for it in the first place) and thank goodness, it was all saved.  So hard to believe, now that we're all clamoring for more, that you couldn't interest people in your photos and stuff back then, JADW.

true. credit to electra & the willed families.

in re to that commercial dead zone era ('71-'78), they were further hurt commercially in that period by not being a part of woodstock. Though the concert had faded relevance by lets say '75, the event still held a lot of curiousity and was a signpost to those who wanted to retrospectively listen to the era. of course in the doors case, it left them out of the loop.

hendrix for ex., also enjoyed a big resurgence post 1980, but the difference was, he sold a lot more records from '72-'79 then the doors. ditto joplin (albeit less then hendrix). that points a lot to the importance of woodstock.

however, it also was that part of the doors narrative that created a differential, combining w/ other unique components, helping to give the doors much longer legs then any of their peers w/ the exception of the beatles, the stones & perhaps hendrix.

thru both marketing and thankful saved documental evidence in audio & film, electra & the doors camp were able to sell & market a unique narrative around a singular sound. They inturn built a lasting & growing fan base, post baby boomers thru the '90's even to some degree currently. sure, the doors capitalized off hits, looks & the '60's itself, but they also adroitly marketed clear differentials that no band in the history of music had.

like jessie james--> james dean, morrison had rebellion & death embued w/ his image. living on the edge & dying before you get old has always held a place in the heart for many in our culture. yet the mr mojo story trumped that, b/c to some degree handlers were even able to elevate the narrative to an even more powerful amer currency:

martydom for vision.

morrison not only lived it, he died by it, & importantly, on his own terms. he did that also in an unconvential style via a convential youth star vehicle. Perhaps being and projecting from the city of stars, the band had an innate feel for this. For sure though, jim was the perfect template. he wasn't only the first sex symbol, intellectual rebel in rock. he was also unlawfully dangerous. willing to push an assaultive stage persona beyond mere misdemeanor legal reproach. furthermore, he didnt do it for coin.

Though probaly much less known when he was alive, the later well known fact that he lived his fame w/o pronounced material trappings was virtually unseen in media personalities then or now. For those who learned of the story post death, esp realizing he was born of an aspiring middle class upbringing where materialism was embraced, it was clear this cat was of rare pedigree.

sure it was keen marketing, but there was also enough truth & tangible new blood in re to the american tale, that the story stands out as something to reflect the times off, not vica-versa.

hence even w/ all the other ray driven new age dionysus schmaltz, the story will endure imo for this reason. Jim was one of the few of theory, that rather then chase the other dots--->>> be the dot that draws away from the crowd, solidifies its own consitution, then trumpets out from the wilderness. The trick he seemed to pull off, was he was willing to stay that dot, in those woods, even if the others didnt migrate to his domain.

Edited by the_manassa_mauler_1919-'26, 01 May 2012 - 12:13 AM.

[GG Morrison]

the_manassa_mauler_1919-, on 30 April 2012 - 11:33 PM, said:

morrison wasn't only the first sex symbol, intellectual rebel in rock. he was also unlawfully dangerous. willing to push an assaultive stage persona beyond mere misdemeanor legal reproach. furthermore, he didnt do it for the coin.

Though probaly much less known when he was alive, the later well known fact that he lived his fame w/o pronounced material trappings was virtually unseen in media personalities then or now. For those who learned of the story post death, esp realizing he was born of an aspiring middle class upbringing where materialism was embraced, it was clear this cat was a rare breed.

This aspect of Jim's personality always fascinated me, that he didn't seem to care for the trappings of rock star fame, and didn't acquire lots of "stuff," at least not for himself.  And that he created his own image, didn't have a team of handlers, personal trainers, wardrobe people, etc, to tell him what to wear, where to live, etc.  Not like these manufactured American-Idol-ish pop stars today.