40 replies to this topic

[crazyhorse80]

Defiance, on 29 May 2012 - 06:53 AM, said:

People today have all kinds of pills that they put in their soda bottles. Jim no doubt tried taking bennies like the Beats who took the nasal inhaler and removed the Dexedrine strip from inside put it in coffee in order to write their stuff. Jim wrote 'Crystal Ship' as an homage to this practice.

Huh, I know the Beats popped bennies and typed and typed, and from what they wrote I always got the sense from their work as a frenetic burst of creativity, kind of like the effect the drug produced, but according to you Jim wrote "The Crystal Ship" as an homage to uppers, while that particular song was one of the most subdued, beautiful songs the band has ever recorded. That seems contradictory. Could you please tell us how else Jim factored in the bennies into the meaning of those lyrics and the melody of the song? This could be a revelation...

[Defiance]

crazyhorse80, on 15 June 2012 - 03:54 AM, said:

Huh, I know the Beats popped bennies and typed and typed, and from what they wrote I always got the sense from their work as a frenetic burst of creativity, kind of like the effect the drug produced, but according to you Jim wrote "The Crystal Ship" as an homage to uppers, while that particular song was one of the most subdued, beautiful songs the band has ever recorded. That seems contradictory. Could you please tell us how else Jim factored in the bennies into the meaning of those lyrics and the melody of the song? This could be a revelation...

I never said that Jim was on it when he recorded the song. Even if he was on it though, Jim could be calm at any time because of his mental strength. It probably worked like ADD medication for Jim. The time when Jim got crazy is when he ran out of drugs, not when he was on them.

Drugs made Jim normal.

Also, I didn't say that he wrote it as an homage to 'uppers'. You can't reduce Dexedrine to merely 'uppers'. You don't seem to know what we are talking about here.

It is supposed to have been a very pure thing to do.

You think it can't be beautiful while being drug music? There is no contradiction. Listen to Pink Floyd 'Comfortably Numb' and think of Artie Lange.

Just because Beats stayed awake and wrote all that stuff, it doesn't mean that everyone who took Bennies was out of control. Many are able to sleep even when taking these drugs.

Jim wasn't a marathon writer like the Beats though, so his experience would not match theirs.

P.S. I never mentioned that Bennies equated to the song's meaning. It is what it is... an homage. Don't try and twist what I said into me claiming that I know the lyrics meanings. Jim could have written those words about a million experiences we don't know about. All we have are the lyrics to describe something, a story perhaps, or a vision, or whatever it is that he saw.

As for the melody, it came from God.

Jim did not factor anything into his melodies. They just exist, complete from God.

Quote

Dextroamphetamine

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Dextroamphetamine is a psychostimulant drug which is known to produce increased wakefulness and focus as well as decreased fatigue and decreased appetite. It is used for the treatment of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) and narcolepsy.

Dextroamphetamine is the dextrorotatory, or "right-handed", stereoisomer of the amphetamine molecule. The amphetamine molecule has two stereoisomers; levoamphetamine and dextroamphetamine. Names for dextroamphetamine include d-amphetamine, dexamphetamine, dexamfetamine, and (S)-(+)-amphetamine, with brand names to include Dexedrine and Dextrostat, and in some countries it is sold simply as Dexamphetamine Sulphate.

The dextroamphetamine salts constitute around 75% of the ADHD drug Adderall.[2] Dextroamphetamine is also an active metabolite of the prodrug lisdexamfetamine (Vyvanse), as well as of several older N-substituted amphetamine prodrugs used as anorectics, such as clobenzorex (Asenlix), benzphetamine (Didrex), and amphetaminil (Aponeuron).

Medical usage

Dextroamphetamine is used for the treatment of ADHD and narcolepsy.

Dextroamphetamine may also be used for exogenous obesity and treatment-resistant depression.

Military usage

The U.S. Air Force uses dextroamphetamine as one of its "go pills", given to pilots on long missions to help them remain focused and alert.[6][7][8][9] The Tarnak Farm incident was linked by media reports to the use of this drug on long term fatigued pilots. The military did not accept this explanation, citing the lack of similar incidents. Newer stimulant medications or awakeness promoting agents with different side effect profiles, such as modafinil are being investigated and sometimes issued for this reason.[6]

During the Vietnam War, Special Units of the US Military, such as MACV-SOG, were issued dextroamphetamine tablets. Due to the threat of misuse, these tablets were given to the Commanding Officer of the unit, and given out when needed.[10]

Quote

Dexedrine and literature

Allen Ginsberg was a frequent user of amphetamines, including Dexedrine. When he died, pundit George Will wrote of his most famous poem, published in 1956: "He composed 'Howl' with the help of a cocktail of peyote, amphetamines and Dexedrine" (Washington Post, April 9, 1997).

Steven Watson, in The Birth of the Beat Generation (2002), reports that Jack Kerouac died in 1967 "addicted to Johnny Walker Red and Dexedrine."

In Robert Stone's novel A Flag for Sunrise (1981), Pablo Tabor, an amphetamine-addicted user of Dexedrine, among other drugs, is an important character.

Edited by Defiance, 15 June 2012 - 08:33 AM.

[Defiance]

crazyhorse80, on 15 June 2012 - 03:12 AM, said:

No, you are just an idiot, or pretending to be one, which is even worse. I prefaced that people should know who Tupac was unless they were "living under a rock," I am sorry you are not familiar with that phrase. And I did not feel the need to provide his entire biography, just the fact that he is dead and that is why a hologram was produced. Doesn't seem that hard to understand--for anyone else but you I guess. But, everyone on earth knows who Tupac is? Really? Please explain. I'm pretty sure I know a lot of people who do not know of him, just like many younger people, and older people, do not know of Jim Morrison. Why would they?

And about Jim Morrison really being there, I am also sorry you do not understand what a "hologram" is--it's been around for a while. It's not real, and I'm sure most people that witnessed the Tupac hologram that knew he was dead, knew it was not real, just as they would with Jim Morrison, or Hendrix, or Elvis. It'd kind of like going to a movie, you know, as I'm sure everyone in the theater knows they are not watching live gigantic actors performing. They refer to that experience as a "suspension of disbelief." Just like when people went to the theater to see Val Kilmer portraying Jim in The Doors movie, I'm assuming, didn't really think that was Jim in front of their face, would probably not do the same with a hologram version of him, cause, you know, they know it is a hologram and it's not real. So what's your point? Besides a UFC scorecard...

You call me idiot and refer to Doors listeners who like Ian Astbury as 'dumb'.

I know the phrase, but it is not valid. Even people in the bush of Africa know Tupac.

I find it funny that you don't actually say that you know someone who has never heard of Tupac, but you say that you are pretty sure you know such people.

Those people don't exist. If someone claims not to know of Tupac, then they are lying.

I am not worried about people being fooled into thinking that Jim is alive, but rather I am concerned that they are associating a hologram with music. Music is aural. The Doors are aural, the theatre of the mind. You don't need stage props to get people to listen to Jim.

People will find Jim when it is time. Don't force it.

I don't think that it is healthy for people to suspend disbelief. They should never be believing. Such a thing would be ritual.

The Lord teaches that we must avoid ritual.

[manhime]

crazyhorse80, on 15 June 2012 - 03:54 AM, said:

Huh, I know the Beats popped bennies and typed and typed, and from what they wrote I always got the sense from their work as a frenetic burst of creativity, kind of like the effect the drug produced, but according to you Jim wrote "The Crystal Ship" as an homage to uppers, while that particular song was one of the most subdued, beautiful songs the band has ever recorded. That seems contradictory. Could you please tell us how else Jim factored in the bennies into the meaning of those lyrics and the melody of the song? This could be a revelation...

Why argue with a troll that might be a paid troll?  Just put on block like I do "This post is hidden because you have chosen to ignore posts by"

There is no winning or having a debate with a troll.  Obviously he/she is not a Doors fan like the rest of us.  Maybe ray, john, or Robbie would not give He/She a autograph?

Edited by manhime, 16 June 2012 - 02:30 AM.

[Defiance]

manhime, on 16 June 2012 - 02:24 AM, said:

Why argue with a troll that might be a paid troll?  Just put on block like I do "This post is hidden because you have chosen to ignore posts by"

There is no winning or having a debate with a troll.  Obviously he/she is not a Doors fan like the rest of us.  Maybe ray, john, or Robbie would not give He/She a autograph?

If his goal is winning, then yes, he is fighting a lost cause.

"He is not a Doors fan like the rest of us" Cry me a river, dude.

You think Ray doesn't sign autographs? He isn't Ringo. I have enough respect not to approach artists for autographs in the first place. Celebrity doesn't impress me. You can keep your Kardashian framed and signed photo for yourself. I won't steal it.

The above poster was misinformed on what Bennies actually were, so of course he will lose that debate. He came in with no facts and got TKO'd. He was on the border of calling Jim a 'speed freak', and that is not ok.

He was essentially asking why Doors songs don't sound like they were made by people on meth. If someone associates Creativity drugs like Dexedrine with nasty "Crystal meth" (stuff that doesn't help the music get made), then he gets submitted like Lavar Johnson at the hands of Skyscraper Struve. Struve is actually facing unbeaten Ohio native Miocic in a Heavyweight main event this summer.

If you have a swap shop item for sale, then say the name of the item.

You keep telling me I am wrong, but don't then offer anything that can replace what I said.

Give your assesment of 'Crystal Ship'.

Before you ask, the 'Crystal' in Jim's lyrics does not refer to 'Crystal Meth'.

Edited by Defiance, 16 June 2012 - 04:01 AM.

[Enya]

JonoDan, on 14 June 2012 - 08:33 PM, said:

Jim Morrison and Jimi Hendrix Estates Working on Holograms....

http://www.rollingst...ograms-20120612

Quote... "We're trying to get to a point where 3-D characters will walk around," Jeff Jampol, who manages both artists' estates, told Billboard. "Hopefully, 'Jim Morrison' will be able to walk right up to you, look you in the eye, sing right at you and then turn around and walk away."

Jampol–who also handles the estates of Otis Redding, Janis Joplin, Peter Tosh and Rick James–suggested that a 3D hologram would only be part of this proposed new multimedia concert experience. The show could also include walls pixelated like giant TV screens, along with the use of lasers, lights, high-quality audio and synchronized sound vibrations. "

Yaaay!  

[Indio]

Whole concerts with hologram rock stars sounds boring(esp when you pay good money to see them),  but it would work as part of the entertainment provided by the hard rock cafe chain or something similar.

Edited by Indio, 21 June 2012 - 05:10 PM.

[open shirt and raised collars]

Its the control I have the biggest problem with, be honest we are all going to so and see a virtual doors concert (london roundhouse concert recreated?) fuck yeh im in, but when when the popularity of this media has snowballled, where does that leave the philosophy behind the music? The idea of jim as a complete one off never to be reccreated individual with otherworldly talent, the shooting star. I have a feeling it will start with good enough intentions and then fall to the gods of every other watered down media we have now. wont they also have to recreate the whole band if this is going to work?

[manhime]

open shirt and raised collars, on 04 July 2012 - 09:01 AM, said:

Its the control I have the biggest problem with, be honest we are all going to so and see a virtual doors concert (london roundhouse concert recreated?) fuck yeh im in, but when when the popularity of this media has snowballled, where does that leave the philosophy behind the music? The idea of jim as a complete one off never to be reccreated individual with otherworldly talent, the shooting star. I have a feeling it will start with good enough intentions and then fall to the gods of every other watered down media we have now. wont they also have to recreate the whole band if this is going to work?

My thoughts is to get Ray, John, and Robbie to play for real on stage and have Jim Hologram sing for a few songs.  That would give the band one last concert with Jim. The fans might enjoy that.

[Snowdrop]

Well, the music industry would do just about anything to cash in. One just can't re-create Jim Morrison or anyone. What he did do in his own lifetime is enough to know of a man, no need seeing a hologram 2012.

[Defiance]

manhime, on 04 July 2012 - 06:28 PM, said:

My thoughts is to get Ray, John, and Robbie to play for real on stage and have Jim Hologram sing for a few songs.  That would give the band one last concert with Jim. The fans might enjoy that.

Then that is to say that what really happened back in the day is not good enough.

The real Jim is not good enough. In actuality, good and bad are inventions meant to trick.

Today, we use it casually to give quick exchanges and when we don't want to put thought into anything.... we thus say that something is good.

The fans? I am a fan. I would not enjoy any such thing. The other fans don't need it. What about the records? Are those not the tools used to make new fans?

The Doors already did have one last concert with Jim.... in 1970.. when music was good. Music today sucks. Be glad Jim and The Doors is all in the past. It seals it. There is no new Classic Rock. Classic Rock died in 1980 with Lennon and Floyd's 'The Wall'.

To me, this 1979 song is the death of Classic Rock. It is an Asian MMA battle (soccer kicks to the head of a downed opponent are legal) with Rock giving way to a new form of music that would reign in the 80s. A whole era of Rock gets brutally KOd by Pink Floyd.



Mind you, Classic Rock is not a genre.... many genres are within Classic Rock.

Btw, a hologram can't sing anything. Tapes of Jim would be played off a laptop computer that triggers them.

Regardless of what happens, remember that it is Jim's voice, not some computer singing.

A computer can not sing. Only humans and certain other animals can sing, like the singing Gibbon monkey or the wolf.

People only have the singing ability that God gives and allows.

Blues is the human voice. The guitar immitates the voice in Blues. However, in Blues, the voice can never immitate the guitar. The singer is not allowed to do such a thing, otherwise it would be Country and therefore no longer Blues. There can be no Country in Rock or in Blues.

When the term 'Country' is used in a Blues context, it only means rural Blues and does not in any way refer to Country Music.

[The Royal Sperm]

did the hologram went to Paris to visit his grave?

[Defiance]

The Royal Sperm, on 05 July 2012 - 03:47 PM, said:

did the hologram went to Paris to visit his grave?

Only if said hologram was on that Peruvian Torch...

Coincidentally, the official botanical name of that cactus is the name of the city where Jim and Ray first played together, either right when The Doors were formed in mid-1965, or sometime earlier like in the Spring. ????

It is of course a Spanish named city in Los Angeles.

[open shirt and raised collars]

I love the idea of the remaining doors having one last concert together with the image of jim onstage with them, im sure it will be an amazing experience for the three of them even if it is make believe. But this is just the beginning, with the massive leaps in technology we are making it wont be long before they synthesize jims voice to the point where the doors could potentially release an album of new material with a manipulated jim morrison vocal. curiosity may actually get the better of us.

[Defiance]

Snowdrop, on 04 July 2012 - 11:30 PM, said:

Well, the music industry would do just about anything to cash in. One just can't re-create Jim Morrison or anyone. What he did do in his own lifetime is enough to know of a man, no need seeing a hologram 2012.

Not just what he did when alive. He lived in death, as Tupac and Biggie Smalls did.

Jim still brings us something. It won't stop. Jim Morrison is a part of Prophecy.

As much as Jim connects with us through pure things, there is still the Stone movie which disconnects us.

Perhaps that disconnection is needed in order to see past Oliver Stone.... like he is in the rear view, as Shakur says.

[manhime]

open shirt and raised collars, on 05 July 2012 - 06:39 PM, said:

I love the idea of the remaining doors having one last concert together with the image of jim onstage with them, im sure it will be an amazing experience for the three of them even if it is make believe. But this is just the beginning, with the massive leaps in technology we are making it wont be long before they synthesize jims voice to the point where the doors could potentially release an album of new material with a manipulated jim morrison vocal. curiosity may actually get the better of us.

The funny thing is I dislike cover bands. Yet, I think I would go see the 3 original doors playing with Jim Hologram.

I never got to see the doors.  I never will see Jim in real life.  I understand a hologram is not real.  It will never replace Jim.  I do think it is cool though. Holograms will remind us how much we miss the real thing

[Defiance]

manhime, on 06 July 2012 - 12:32 AM, said:

The funny thing is I dislike cover bands. Yet, I think I would go see the 3 original doors playing with Jim Hologram.

I never got to see the doors.  I never will see Jim in real life.  I understand a hologram is not real.  It will never replace Jim.  I do think it is cool though. Holograms will remind us how much we miss the real thing

How will they [holograms] accomplish that?

I don't see the connection, and I know for a fact that they would not be able to bring about those feelings.

If music itself doesn't do it, then there is no hope.

The Doors are aural [to hear], they are not visual though.

[open shirt and raised collars]

Defiance, on 06 July 2012 - 01:33 AM, said:

How will they [holograms] accomplish that?

I don't see the connection, and I know for a fact that they would not be able to bring about those feelings.

If music itself doesn't do it, then there is no hope.

The Doors are aural [to hear], they are not visual though.

I have to disagree with part of that, i've been to 'Elvis the concert' ever since it begun in the late 90s and the response from the audience is incredible and that hasn't dropped at all from the first time i watched, so i dont doubt for a moment that people are gonna have profoundly moving experiences through this media, you experience through associations and most people who would go to a hologram concert have already been preset emotions from the songs they have been listening to for years, combine that with a few 1000 mics of lsd and a bag of weed and your back in the 60s with jim and the boys

[Defiance]

open shirt and raised collars, on 06 July 2012 - 08:50 PM, said:

I have to disagree with part of that, i've been to 'Elvis the concert' ever since it begun in the late 90s and the response from the audience is incredible and that hasn't dropped at all from the first time i watched, so i dont doubt for a moment that people are gonna have profoundly moving experiences through this media, you experience through associations and most people who would go to a hologram concert have already been preset emotions from the songs they have been listening to for years, combine that with a few 1000 mics of lsd and a bag of weed and your back in the 60s with jim and the boys

To me, 'Elvis the concert' is not a concert at all since it is not live. Rather, it is a film with live instrumentalists playing along.

In real Rock, the audience does not matter. With Rock, the more you ignore them, the better it is.

Jim tuned them out when he was alive. Jim never sang for them or to them. Jim only sang for himself.

I don't care that people will miss out on proufoundly moving experiences since I don't agree that such a thing could ever happen with a hologram.

Where is the magic element that the music alone won't give? If the fans already have the emotion, as you say, then let them keep it pure.

Jim wouldn't want Doors fans seeing such a spectacle. It is downright obscene.

Myself, I don't need crap in order to make me more of an Elvis fan.

You use the term 'hologram concert', but what I am saying is that if there were a hologram, it would therefore not be a concert, but rather it would be a movie.

A concert must be live in order for it to be a concert in the first place. A hologram can't sing. The singing would come from audio tapes.

A bag of weed? You can't get high on that, so give it up. Only God is the Most High.

Edited by Defiance, 10 July 2012 - 08:54 AM.

[crazyhorse80]

Defiance, on 16 June 2012 - 03:57 AM, said:

The above poster was misinformed on what Bennies actually were, so of course he will lose that debate. He came in with no facts and got TKO'd. He was on the border of calling Jim a 'speed freak', and that is not ok.

He was essentially asking why Doors songs don't sound like they were made by people on meth. If someone associates Creativity drugs like Dexedrine with nasty "Crystal meth" (stuff that doesn't help the music get made), then he gets submitted like Lavar Johnson at the hands of Skyscraper Struve. Struve is actually facing unbeaten Ohio native Miocic in a Heavyweight main event this summer.

Wow, how did I miss that, possibly the funniest thing I've read on this forum, and the first thing that came to mind was that movie Dinner For Schmucks, and if only I had my choice of who to bring...