True. But many people find the discordant electric piano off-putting. The last two albums were definitely more blues feeling, with more bass & guitar and less electric piano. Personally I like it all. The weird vibe off "Strange Days" is awesome....that is a complete album to me. No filler. Just a solid effort from start to finish.
To know that it was an electric piano in the first place would require at least some musical knowledge and the ability to concentrate and identify it in the mix. That would point to a student of music or a player in a band or even a musician [Rock consists of people in bands and Jazz is musicians]. He or she may be passing on The Doors due to the timbre of Ray's keys, but keep in mind that Ray does play a real piano on some tracks.
Since Ray is playing off the Jimmy Smith Jazz Hammond B3 organist vibe, then someone who is a fan of T. Monk or Bud Powell might not tend to like Doors records. That is fine. It isn't that big of a deal though.
Jim's voice is another matter. If someone insults Jim and promotes their guy, then it is a big deal. No one can say that Van Morrison is better than Jim. In exchange, I say that Jim and Van are then equal since neither can be better. They are both best.
'Horse Latitudes' is sort of filler since they didn't need to write a song and it took up disc time before 'Moonlight'. It works, but it is designed to take up space.
To know that it was an electric piano in the first place would require at least some musical knowledge and the ability to concentrate and identify it in the mix. That would point to a student of music or a player in a band or even a musician [Rock consists of people in bands and Jazz is musicians]. He or she may be passing on The Doors due to the timbre of Ray's keys, but keep in mind that Ray does play a real piano on some tracks.
Since Ray is playing off the Jimmy Smith Jazz Hammond B3 organist vibe, then someone who is a fan of T. Monk or Bud Powell might not tend to like Doors records. That is fine. It isn't that big of a deal though.
Jim's voice is another matter. If someone insults Jim and promotes their guy, then it is a big deal. No one can say that Van Morrison is better than Jim. In exchange, I say that Jim and Van are then equal since neither can be better. They are both best.
'Horse Latitudes' is sort of filler since they didn't need to write a song and it took up disc time before 'Moonlight'. It works, but it is designed to take up space.
I can see you are well-versed in music...unlike myself....very limited. But for MOST folks blues is a guitar, a simple drumbeat, and lyrics that give you the blues. That's why most don't think "blues" when they think "The Doors". Either way, the Doors are great.
Not sure about "Horse Latitudes" being filler. Always thought that was a weird and good intro to "Moonlight Drive". Hey, to each their own.
I can see you are well-versed in music...unlike myself....very limited. But for MOST folks blues is a guitar, a simple drumbeat, and lyrics that give you the blues. That's why most don't think "blues" when they think "The Doors". Either way, the Doors are great.
Not sure about "Horse Latitudes" being filler. Always thought that was a weird and good intro to "Moonlight Drive". Hey, to each their own.
I remember how in Music Appreciation at college, a couple of young girls sat and talked through the whole class sessions. So, I think of those two girls when I imagine someone criticizing The Doors' music. Neither of those girls would even know that a piano was in the sound mix of a Doors song, or let alone that it was electric.
Blues is a guitar, drum, and AAB lyrics.
Blues is also just a bent-note.... but it can then be a man out in the field and all alone.
In Blues, the guitar imitates the voice.
When I say that The Doors are a Blues band, I am talking about how it is Blues 'in scope', meaning that not everything is gonna be labeled 'Worried Man Blues' or have a distinct Chuck Berry 'blues shuffle', but when viewed as a whole, Blues has a presence.
Despite this Blues presence in The Doors, it is largely hidden. It is the same Blues as what is in Led Zeppelin, but somehow it is more accessible and noticeable in Zep. This is probably due to the guitar's reduced role in The Doors and its heightened placement in Zeppelin.
Considering that people accused The Beatles of adding 'And Your Bird Can Sing' as filler on 'Revolver'... and that single filler song by itself outdoes any substantial track from any other Rock band, it is not such a bad thing.
That could be exaggeration on user: vomit's behalf. The Doors is Blues. If you are ok with Blues, then you should be on board with The Doors.
I don't talk to a lot of Blues people, but I have a feeling that they listened to Janis, Jim, and Jimi like any other person around at that time back in the late 60s or early 70s. I am talking about the people who may have been around Jim's age or a little younger, but only got into music after those guys had already passed. There are a lot of late starters and youth only matters in pop. In Blues it is actually bad to be too young. The prime of a Blues player is past 50. I know that music is different to everyone, but recognize that it is Black music... Black Blues. The Great Depression was designed to destroy Black owned music companies so that Hillbilly record companies owned by Whites could profit by owning the market.
So...I don't see this strong opposite feeling towards The Doors coming from people. Could it be expected and therefore one is prone to seeing it occur?
I must ask, why are you talking to these people about The Doors if there is no mutual interest? Is it that they are indifferent, or really don't like Jim? I guess I could see how it would be fun to be kinda drunk off 6 beers and argue about how The Doors are the greatest..... but oh wait, The Stones hold the title of greatest.
Sometimes it just comes up in conversation. Main complaint about The Doors I come across is that people think they are pretentious.
Main complaint about The Doors I come across is that people think they are pretentious.
At least they have listened to know as much.
Are these people from the 60s though? Were they born in the 90s?
To look into The Doors so much in order to witness that they are pretentious is something that is proof of interest.
I think that Jim's spirit revolves around the playing of the music itself, regardless of the outcome or what someone appreciates or does not appreciate. Each time a song gets played, there is the chance for something happening.
For instance, I would rather that 100 people who do not like The Doors listen to an album rather than having 100 verified Doors fans listen to that same record.
Which group will act more different after hearing the music?
I had a conversation with a coworker a few years ago about The Doors. She said she could never listen to their music because she hated the sound of Jim's voice.
That was a new one for me. Granted Jim vocals got a bit rough as the years passed, but she had only heard top 40 songs, not Live in Boston :-) Jim's baritone vocals, on his best days, is one reason among many others, that I became a diehard fan. Every time I hear a contemporary song that uses auto tune to "improve" a singer's voice I cringe.
It seems that people either love or dislikes their music. To each, their own.
I can see you are well-versed in music...unlike myself....very limited. But for MOST folks blues is a guitar, a simple drumbeat, and lyrics that give you the blues. That's why most don't think "blues" when they think "The Doors". Either way, the Doors are great.
Not sure about "Horse Latitudes" being filler. Always thought that was a weird and good intro to "Moonlight Drive". Hey, to each their own.
You are quite right. The Doors do not play blues at all! lol
Not even Roadhouse Blues is blues.
The Doors made 62 songs on 6 studio albums, only one is a blues, Cars Hiss by my window.
You are quite right. The Doors do not play blues at all! lol
Not even Roadhouse Blues is blues.
The Doors made 62 songs on 6 studio albums, only one is a blues, Cars Hiss by my window.
Being facetious much? I would hope so.
Nearly everything is Blues in scope. There doesn't have to be a shuffle, or 12 bars, or the I-IV-V Blues progression... it just needs a bent note. Jim bent notes all the time.
Besides Jim's Blues singing on every album,there is the 12-bar blues that is 'Riders on the Storm' in Minor key.
Jim always sang in minor keys, and sometimes that is all that is needed for Blues.
Morrison took his singing from Black people, and what they brought us was Black Blues. It started with a slave in the field with his Work Songs and Field Hollers.
Blues is communication with God. If you don't understand this much, you have no chance at cracking the Blues.
Interests:Sirius XMU, books on bands from the late 60s/70s & non-fiction, Netflix (mostly horror films in my queue), art galleries, concerts, coffee, sugar free red bull and any combination of chocolate and peanut butter.
Posted 19 April 2012 - 10:59 AM
In regards to Stern...indifferent. But it must be easy to sit in a closed off radio station and comment on a band when you aren't facing the remaining band members. I mean has HE ever released a record LOL? It's his opinion and that's cool but to say such horrible things about the Doors...it's annoying...has he REALLY listened to the music? I just have no comprehension of how someone CAN'T be obsessed w/the Doors. Like the first time I heard them I was hooked. That's it. I guess you either love 'em or hate 'em. I love 'em!
In regards to Stern...indifferent. But it must be easy to sit in a closed off radio station and comment on a band when you aren't facing the remaining band members. I mean has HE ever released a record LOL? It's his opinion and that's cool but to say such horrible things about the Doors...it's annoying...has he REALLY listened to the music? I just have no comprehension of how someone CAN'T be obsessed w/the Doors. Like the first time I heard them I was hooked. That's it. I guess you either love 'em or hate 'em. I love 'em!
Sirius radio is hardly closed off. They are in New York City... the center of it all. It isn't even a 'station' in the mundane sense... it is the ultimate musical format.
Howard has recorded songs, my fav being a cover of Donovan's 'Hurdy Gurdy Man'. He does it 'tounge in cheek' though. At least he does not pretend to be a musician like most people in Rock do. Let's face it, musicians in Rock were scarce in the 60s and early 70s (i.e. the Classic Rock era). There are no young musicians making Rock music today. In other words, you will not hear any musician when listening to Modern Rock radio. One would have to listen to Jazz and/or Classical in order to hear musicians.
Rock is Blues. Musicians don't play Blues. The people who bring us Blues are not musicians. The Blues music comes directly from God. All of Jim's music came from God.
Stern never tried to compete with real Rock artists, but he did prove that he is the best of the 'celebrity singers' and even has an open challenge out to any Billy Bob Thornton actor-type who thinks he is a singer deep down.
He did say it to Ray when Manzarek was a guest and the two were 'facing' each other. What is so bad about telling someone that you don't like their music? It isn't like the surviving Doors are Black rappers and you have to be worried about insulting them.
Are the remaining Doors really sacred and above any critical opinions? Doesn't the fact that the remaining members haven't had a hit song since Jim died say something in and of itself?
Howard really did listen back when The Doors were new. Howard was a young teen during the 60s era. He has an appreciation for Hendrix and Neil Young, invited Billy Joel and Paul McCartney onto the show, and basically has a Rock and Roll soundtrack that goes along with his radio show.
Sirius radio is hardly closed off. They are in New York City... the center of it all. It isn't even a 'station' in the mundane sense... it is the ultimate musical format.
Howard has recorded songs, my fav being a cover of Donovan's 'Hurdy Gurdy Man'. He does it 'tounge in cheek' though. At least he does not pretend to be a musician like most people in Rock do. Let's face it, musicians in Rock were scarce in the 60s and early 70s (i.e. the Classic Rock era). There are no young musicians making Rock music today. In other words, you will not hear any musician when listening to Modern Rock radio. One would have to listen to Jazz and/or Classical in order to hear musicians.
Rock is Blues. Musicians don't play Blues. The people who bring us Blues are not musicians. The Blues music comes directly from God. All of Jim's music came from God.
Stern never tried to compete with real Rock artists, but he did prove that he is the best of the 'celebrity singers' and even has an open challenge out to any Billy Bob Thornton actor-type who thinks he is a singer deep down.
He did say it to Ray when Manzarek was a guest and the two were 'facing' each other. What is so bad about telling someone that you don't like their music? It isn't like the surviving Doors are Black rappers and you have to be worried about insulting them.
Are the remaining Doors really sacred and above any critical opinions? Doesn't the fact that the remaining members haven't had a hit song since Jim died say something in and of itself?
Howard really did listen back when The Doors were new. Howard was a young teen during the 60s era. He has an appreciation for Hendrix and Neil Young, invited Billy Joel and Paul McCartney onto the show, and basically has a Rock and Roll soundtrack that goes along with his radio show.
Technology replaced music. Doubt we'll ever see of our times those kind of legacies of music but of technology.
Technology replaced music. Doubt we'll ever see of our times those kind of legacies of music but of technology.
I think that you must finish the 'tech/music' statement with something like "Technology replaced music as the thing which connects young people", or "Technology replaced music as a way to communicate".
As it is, music still exists, so therefore it has not been replaced outright.
If we say that the 60s is gone for good, then couldn't we just as easily say that this is still the 60s? How do we know it is over?
The 60s is not merely a decade as the 80s, or even the 50s was.
Consider it to be unending.... and the 2000s is then just a slow period. People outside of the US may not be able to relate, but the major downfall of our generation is Liberal politics (i.e. the idea that 13 year old girls should be able to obtain abortions without parental notification and/or permission).
Granted, there will be no Beatles or Janis ever again, but the kind of talent that was represented through them is not the most essential part of that era.
The talent level won't be reached again, but the 'level of communication' through music certainly can.
I think that you must finish the 'tech/music' statement with something like "Technology replaced music as the thing which connects young people", or "Technology replaced music as a way to communicate".
As it is, music still exists, so therefore it has not been replaced outright.
If we say that the 60s is gone for good, then can't we just as easily say that this is still the 60s?
The 60s is not merely a decade as the 80s, or even the 50s was. As we consider it to be unending, then it is just a slow period.
Granted, there will be no Beatles or Janis ever again, but the kind of talent that was represented through them is not the most essential part of that era.
The talent level won't be reached again, but the 'level of communication' through music certainly can.
You're right, was not clear a bit there.
I was not questioning that "level of communication" wont exist through some form of music but the technology part is changing the craft and in return its existance.
When one hears of the app "GarageBand" by Apple or of software that'll professionally replace musicians, instruments etc. that's when I think of "replaced/replacing".
Might just as well someday be literally "no young Rock musicians" on the radio but virtual.
I was not questioning that "level of communication" wont exist through some form of music but the technology part is changing the craft and in return its existance.
When one hears of the app "GarageBand" by Apple or of software that'll professionally replace musicians, instruments etc. that's when I think of "replaced/replacing".
Might just as well someday be literally "no young Rock musicians" on the radio but virtual.
Would it surprise you to learn that both Ray and John both use 'virtual instruments'? Ray hasn't used a real organ in years (when I saw him), and John has a plug-in foot pedal which triggers a digital bass drum effect. In essense, Densmore pushes a computer button with his foot in order to make music.
Doors era organ- Gibson Kalamazoo
Vs "21st Century" era, circa 2004- digital synth
There are easier ways of recording nowadays (i.e. home tracking on a laptop vs big recording studio). I tend to think that an artist has more freedom outside of a studio and away from producers' influences.
Even when a group does self-record/self-produce, there are always going to be Liberals who come along and tell them that they "can't" do it alone and that they do indeed need "professional" help, likely supplied by their Liberal-run 'mastering house' where recordings are turned into 'radio-friendly' piles of shit.
For example, Jimmy Page produced all of Zep's albums and did so in hallways, stairwells, and abandoned mansions as well as in professional studios. Page did not allow anyone at the record company to ruin his albums though, but bands today welcome the destrution of their 'art'.
Once programming happens, it is no longer Rock. We have to wonder what this Adelle would be without all the production.
Technology can exist as an instrument, thus technology is not replacing instruments, but rather it is integrating itself into them. An instrument can be virtual or it can be acoustic (makes its own sound).
A guitar is a guitar regardless of whether it is electric or not.
Let me ask you, did the electric guitar replace the acoustic guitar? In some instances, yes. In other instances, no.
Was the guitar replaced in popular music by some other easily played instrument such as a synth?
As a guitar player myself, I know that people play electric because it is easier to play than a steel string acoustic guitar is.
I am personally happy that players have abandoned the acoustic in favor of the electic since it only shows how weak their hands really are..... thus when a real Rock player comes along and plays acoustic, it shows how much skill that the acoustic player really has.
Two options:
1. A young player relies on electic guitar.
2. A young player doesn't play at all.
I would rather that the young person at least play electric instead of nothing.
The reality is that young players don't play acoustic simply because they can't.... and we all know it. The presence of the electric guitar in Modern Rock is proof of absence of skill.
Edit: Not saying that you are wrong, or I am right, or anyone else is wrong. Virtual Instruments in and of themselves are neutral. Rather, it is always the player who takes responsibility for having abused any instrument.
Just as VIs can be misused, so can pianos and flutes. Is Lady Gaga taken more seriously because she plays piano in addition to singing those songs?
I look at it all from the perspective of someone who may someday need those VIs and automated programs in order to make real music. For example, when Sublime self-recorded their 'Ruca' song, they needed a deep bass sound and they knew that they could sample a clean bass hit sound off a Beastie Boys record, so that is what they did because they needed it.
Is Sublime fake because they used a virtually triggered drum in order to create a unique beat?
Moments when I tend to doubt technology, that it narrows the view to only see its consequences and why missed to acknowledge the existing possibilities, for the individual.
Such as for self-production and therefore both artists and consumers on their own have the tools to go against corporate influence & control, their ideas of 'right or wrong'.
I especially loved the part of technology as an instrument & integrating. It klicked instantly. Rings familiar, to education theory.
"Technology can exist as an instrument, thus technology is not replacing instruments, but rather it is integrating itself into them."
Appreciate you taking the time to color one's mind as you know how to.
No, the virtual beat is real cool one, whole song got gist.
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vomit, on 25 January 2012 - 02:20 AM, said:
