17 replies to this topic

[jymwrite]

I don't know if I've ever mentioned this theory of Oliver Stone's The Doors to this board, but I think I nailed the theory. The Doors Movie Reconsidered

Jim  

[Encuentro]

I understand your theory, but unfortunately, Oliver Stone created these films at the expense of the truth in the case of JFK and Jim's image in the case of The Doors. He steered millions of people as far from the truth of Kennedy's assassination as possible and managed to turn Oswald into an innocent man and a patriot. In fact, the only person Oliver Stone seems to completely rule out in the Kennedy assassination is Oswald. Everybody else is a suspect. Ironically, he managed to turn Jim Garrison, a reckless slanderer who destroyed the life of the completely innocent Clay Shaw, into a hero, and Jim Morrison into nothing more than an out of control, drunken buffoon. One thing that Oliver Stone's The Doors has over When You're Strange is that Stone's film had an impact. It significantly impacted album sales and brought in new fans. When You're Strange has had no impact whatsoever. Most people don't even know that is exists. Apparently, When You're Strange isn't the anti-Oliver Stone film that some claimed it would be.

[Defiance]

Encuentro, on 28 June 2010 - 09:51 PM, said:

I understand your theory, but unfortunately, Oliver Stone created these films at the expense of the truth in the case of JFK and Jim's image in the case of The Doors. He steered millions of people as far from the truth of Kennedy's assassination as possible and managed to turn Oswald into an innocent man and a patriot. In fact, the only person Oliver Stone seems to completely rule out in the Kennedy assassination is Oswald. Everybody else is a suspect. Ironically, he managed to turn Jim Garrison, a reckless slanderer who destroyed the life of the completely innocent Clay Shaw, into a hero, and Jim Morrison into nothing more than an out of control, drunken buffoon. One thing that Oliver Stone's The Doors has over When You're Strange is that Stone's film had an impact. It significantly impacted album sales and brought in new fans. When You're Strange has had no impact whatsoever. Most people don't even know that is exists. Apparently, When You're Strange isn't the anti-Oliver Stone film that some claimed it would be.

I will keep that in mind as I finish watching my JFK DVD. It would seem that in order to truly make an 'Anti-Oliver Stone' film, one would need Val Kilmer. Don't try and fool people by calling it a 'documentary' though.

The thing about the JFK assassination is that it had to happen. There was no way around it; even if the president had escaped that day, there was still a major plot against him. They were not letting him out of the South alive.

[Encuentro]

Defiance, on 28 June 2010 - 11:43 PM, said:

I will keep that in mind as I finish watching my JFK DVD. It would seem that in order to truly make an 'Anti-Oliver Stone' film, one would need Val Kilmer. Don't try and fool people by calling it a 'documentary' though.

The thing about the JFK assassination is that it had to happen. There was no way around it; even if the president had escaped that day, there was still a major plot against him. They were not letting him out of the South alive.

Both Kennedy and Officer J.D. Tippet were murdered by one lone nutcase, Lee Harvey Oswald. The facts of the case have proven that beyond a reasonable doubt.

Edited by Encuentro, 29 June 2010 - 12:15 AM.

[Lum]

Personally don't mind movies that are not straight to facts but have their artistic freedom, a good movie is still a good movie regardless of how factual it is or not. But in this case don't think the movie is good meaning it's, imo, out of date, it had it's time when it would attract people to it, when it was not then silly, it was new but now it does not have a place in time, it's not flattering.

Feel sorry too for the scriptwriter.

Edited by Lum, 04 July 2010 - 11:47 AM.

[Defiance]

Lum, on 04 July 2010 - 11:46 AM, said:

Feel sorry too for the scriptwriter.

Stone did it himself after finding an early script which he could change around. One of the only things that remains from the original draft, in addition to the poetry reading session, is the cave scene from the desert when Jim takes peyote and then there is a 'jump cut' in which Jim appears on stage in Los Angeles.

Edited by Defiance, 06 July 2010 - 08:16 AM.

[Pedro Kazit]

Other Oliver Stone interview about The Doors film:  

[Pedro Kazit]

The Doors Oliver Stone film 20th Anniversary Special Edition Blu-Ray(in U.K., April 18, 2011) with Extras("Jim Morrison a poet in Paris", etc.). 140 minutes:  http://www.altfg.com...-doors-blu-ray/

[mild equator]

Used to dislike it, but just got done reading James Riordan's (Break on Through) bio on Stone. Totally recommend everyone here  read the chapter on The Doors film. Gave me a whole new perspective.

Like all Stone's films tis not 'posed to be a documentary, but a dramitization. A play with a message. Just like Platoon, just like JFK, just like Alexander. It's called artistic license, and Stone earned his.  Real life people are often grouped together under one character, scenes are developed to advance action and reveal character, not to teach history. In the bio, Stone talks about how he wanted the movie to be like a music video, in that the music drives the plot, not vice versa.

Stone is very respectful, admiring, even loving about Morrison. He discovered him in Vietnam and still talks about him on a personal basis, like he's in the next room. Supposedly Morrison even had a Stone screenplay on his belongings when he passed in Paris (tho that might be bullshit for the book).

Point is there are a lot of similarities between the two men, as far as their family lives, their fathers, military background, education ( bounced in and out of college on Dad's wallet, until finishing film school), French influences, attitudes toward authority, experimentation with drugs, et al and whathaveyou. Suffice to say if Morrison had skipped the LSD Venice summer of drugs and songwriting, he most likely would have turned out be a filmaker with exactly the artistic predilictions and tastes of Stone. Stone makes films like Morrison would have. In your face, rebellious, confrontational, dangerous, intellectual, attemmpted epic. An intellectual blend of pulp and high art. Every one whos into Morrison should appreciate Stone's films, in that they beat the Catch 22 of Hollywood :they make money without selling out, try to change the consciousness of the world without sacrificing artistic integrity. Stone doesn't cowtow to the powers that be, whether they are the Juden execs in Hollywood, the US government, or Ray Manzereck.

Personally, I think Morrison would have dug the film. Stone talks about how, in the end, its between him and Jim, if the film did Morrison wrong. He has that spiritual aspect, that all true Morrison fans seem to share; and which excuses any mistakes the film made.

[super8monsters]

Oliver "Gulliver" Stone is a groupie for the world's dictators - Chavez and Castro. John, Ray and Robbie's opinion OS' 'The Doors movie sucks' is worth more than the money Oliver made on the film, whether he made a profit or not. The Doors movie actually pulled together and synthesized the mythos of Jim Morrison that accumulated and circulated in those days before the 1990's and the internet, when the Doors were still pretty much mysterious and an interesting topic on rock and roll music. They were still considered "underground" even in the 1980's along with The Stooges and The Velvet Underground.  

A couple of strange, and in my opinion well-made movies, about the killing of John Lennon brought about similar outrage from the surviving Beatles, and family, fans, etc. because of exploitation of deliberately presenting a sympathetic assassin in the form of Mark David Chapman as "anti-hero" to the "working class hero", John Lennon who is rendered into an unsympathetic character - aloof, wealthy, and seemingly justified for being shot.

The Doors movie opened wide the mythos of Jim Morrison by presenting the caricature of Jim on screen as real-life, like true-life fiction, and turned Jim Morrison into an asshole who deserved to die by the end of the film because he was such a scumbag, and so poorly portrayed in the screenplay, I was glad to see him die at the end of the film.

[snowman2]

I would dislike it less if there was a disclaimer at the beginning" This is not a biography of the Doors,but a fictional account based on real life events"   That....I could have dealt with.  On the other hand, I know it has introduced alot of young people to The Doors and that's a good thing.

[gc1966]

I think anything Doors should not be discredited, simply by the fact that it promotes the band, whatever the context may be. Out of all the documentaries, films and other media promoting the doors legacy, Oliver Stone’s perception of the band evokes the most feeling, as the music from the film drove the images and gave it real emotional power, sympathetic pathos and drama, all the qualities Jim would have appreciated in a movie.
The film was never promoted by Stone as a definitive documentary of the band, nor was the movie presented or delivered in that way. The movie was supposed to portray music, art, and images created by the doors, for the sole purpose of entertainment value alone.
If anything, we should be grateful that a major motion picture was created with regards to the band and its lead singer, it is a lot more than what other bands have received from mainstream media over the years. And remember: publicity, good or bad, fetches an audience.

[Pedro Kazit]

Video of USA TV(in 90´s years), talk Densmore(known for me this part of video), Robby, Meg Ryan, etc.(this part unknown for me):  

[Pedro Kazit]

Densmore in theatre of Santa Monica, October 8, 2011 for 20 th anniversary Oliver Stone film "The Doors":  http://www.americanc...ent/the-doors-0
This news in:  http://www.idafan.com/

[Pedro Kazit]

Promo in Turner Network Television(TNT) in Brazil(2000 year). Portuguese language:  

[Pedro Kazit]

Promo(minute 0:19 to 0:47) unknown for me:  

[Pedro Kazit]

Val Kilmer talks in USA programme(of 2000´s years) "Inside the Actors Studio" about The Doors film and Jim Morrison(minute 11:29 to...):  

[Pedro Kazit]

Promo in Canal 13 of Nicaragua(Central America), the next July 1, 2012 this film in this TV(Spanih language):