140 replies to this topic

[Defiance]

crazyhorse80, on 16 February 2012 - 04:57 AM, said:

Thought I'd throw these out there as possible or potential concerts Jim might have attended. These are the concerts that took place at the Whisky-A-Go-Go from around the time The Doors began playing at the London Fog until the night The Doors were booted from The Whisky, courtesy of the website Whisky-A-G-Go History. It's possible Jim might have wandered down there between LF sets or after, or on off-nights. One that interests me is the Otis Redding stand, as the Otis Live at the Whisky album, recorded from those shows, has always been one of my favorites, as well as the fact that Bob Dylan was rumored to be in the crowd--and wonder if Dylan was actually there if he might have wandered out and a couple doors down and heard strange sounds coming from the London Fog and clandestinely strolled in and dug The Doors for a bit if they were playing that night. Anyway...

It's highly likely Jim witnessed most of the bands that The Doors opened for at The Whisky, which you could consider attending a concert, given he had the option of leaving after The Doors were done. But I guess it's all just possible speculation, as it's unsourced and undocumented as to who he actually stuck around to see, but given the chance that he was, thought this might be a nice sidebar to this thread...

February 4-20, 1966: Paul Butterfield Blues Band, The Leaves
February 22-March 10: 1966 Love, The Leaves
March 1-17, 1966: Grass Roots, Hardtimes
March 18-24, 1966: Beau Brummels, Grass Roots

April 1-7, 1966: Otis Redding
Rhino released an Otis Redding album recorded at The Whisky in 1966, and it is likely the performances were from this week. Bob Dylan apparently attended one of these shows, and proposed writing a song for Otis (reputedly Just Like A Woman).

April 28-May 8, 1966: The Gentrys
May 3, 1966: Grass Roots, Buffalo Springfield
May 9, 1966: The Doors (audition)
May 11-22, 1966: Johnny Rivers, Buffalo Springfield
May 23-27, 1966: Captain Beefheart and The Magic Band, Buffalo Springfield, The Doors
May 28-June 1, 1966: Love, Buffalo Springfield, The Doors
June 2-18, 1966: Them, The Doors
June 22-July 10, 1966: Gene Clark and The Group, The Locos, The Doors
July 16-23, 1966: The Turtles, First Review, The Doors
July 27, 1966: Johnny Rivers, Chambers Brothers, The Doors
August 1-4, 1966: Johnny Rivers, Chambers Brothers, The Doors
August 7-9, 1966: Johnny Rivers, Chambers Brothers, The Doors
August 10, 1966: The Doors, (possibly) Love
August 11-21, 1966: Love, The Doors

Johnny Rivers and Chambers Brothers could easily get old after the first night. Effort may have been made for Otis.

In the UFC, a fighter may wish to finish his bout in the first round so that he can then go change and watch the next fight from the seats. I don't imagine Jim arriving early to hear those bands or staying late to catch them.

However, we know that Them with Van Morrison and Love were his favorites and there is the documented jam with the former.

The Doors would have had the most valuble jam with fellow Elektra label-mate The Paul Butterfield Blues Band as long as Robbie only played slide guitar.

The Doors were musically too different from Love and The Dead, as well as from the Allman Brothers and even Buffalo Springfield. Folk has many shades and some groups are more purist than others. Buffalo Springfield might be a more rigid or strict folk-rock group while Mamas and the Papas were a more loose and mellow folk style of rock... like Donovan..... like The Doors were on the verge of doing.

The Beau Brummels are cool, but wasn't Jim busy working on his own music at that time/getting ready for his own concerts through meditation?

Edited by Defiance, 16 February 2012 - 10:01 AM.

[Shelby68]

BallroomDays67, on 05 October 2011 - 06:20 PM, said:

New Entries:

10/20,21 or 22/67, or 3/31/68, or 4/1/68, or 5/10 or 11/68 - Electric Flag at the Cheetah, Venice, CA (Accompanied by Bob Segarini)

Unknown Date - Jimi Hendrix at Thee Experience (Accompanied by Bob Segarini)

Interesting, thanks for all the research you've done, BallroomDays. Did Bob Segarini write about this, or do you know him?

[BallroomDays67]

You're welcome. Thanks to everyone who has contributed so far.

Bob Segarini mentioned those shows here: Segarini: The Weekend Roundup: Jim Morrison and The Doors

All of the sources are included at the end of the list.

Edited by BallroomDays67, 16 February 2012 - 06:45 PM.

[Shelby68]

Interesting detail about the London Fog: "The band was about 10 feet above the floor of the room, and you had to climb a little wooden ladder to get up there. The audience always looked like they were watching a flock of ducks flying overhead."

That Segarini can really write (too bad the coding is so messed up), and how refreshing to get a clear-eyed view of Jim the person. I especially liked this bit: "Jim spoke passionately about what he was reading, his face animated and his intellect firing on all cylinders, explaining the importance of the novel both in its story, and the way in which it was written, and how it was responsible for many firsts in the world of literature."

[The Frodis]

BallroomDays67, on 23 September 2009 - 12:13 AM, said:

Which page are you referring to?

The book about Jim Morrison's high school years in Virginia talks about him going to Washington DC to take in live music, but I don't recall if any specific acts or dates are mentioned.  ("The Lizard King Slept Here", or something like that.)

There's an interview with Roger Daltrey of The Who, maybe on Maximum R&B, in which he talks about the last time he saw Jim Morrison alive.  They were backstage together at the Isle of Wight Festival.  I can't recall now, though, whether he mentioned who was playing at the time.

[BallroomDays67]

The Frodis, on 18 February 2012 - 02:24 AM, said:

The book about Jim Morrison's high school years in Virginia talks about him going to Washington DC to take in live music, but I don't recall if any specific acts or dates are mentioned.  ("The Lizard King Slept Here", or something like that.)

Thanks. I haven't read that book, but perhaps someone will chime in with additional details.

[The Frodis]

BallroomDays67, on 18 February 2012 - 02:50 AM, said:

Thanks. I haven't read that book, but perhaps someone will chime in with additional details.

The Who and The Doors also played on the same bill at the Singer Bowl, in addition to the Isle of Wight.  Jim may have watched them either time or both.

John Densmore, I think, wrote about sitting backstage at Woodstock watching a band (Vanilla Fudge?) play (if you want to start one about other Doors taking in live shows...)

[Shelby68]

I hope this isn't OT but did Jim ever share why he admired Brian Jones so much? As a singer & front man, you'd think he would relate to Jagger more. Not that it's either/or of course, I'm just interested what particularly appealed to Jim about Brian.

BTW, Brian Jones would have turned 70 years old today.

[mizscarlett43]

Shelby68, on 28 February 2012 - 05:17 PM, said:

I hope this isn't OT but did Jim ever share why he admired Brian Jones so much? As a singer & front man, you'd think he would relate to Jagger more. Not that it's either/or of course, I'm just interested what particularly appealed to Jim about Brian.

BTW, Brian Jones would have turned 70 years old today.

I don't know that Jim "admired Brian Jones so much," but he was curious about him and I'm sure recognized him as a fellow musical genius. Also, as a music biz insider I suspect he was well aware (as I was not until Salli clued me in me recently) that Brian didn't quit the Stones, he was forced out of the band he had founded by the machinations of the Glimmer Twins, especially Mick.

As far as Jim being friendly with Jagger--are you kidding me? AFAIK they were only rivals, and not particularly friendly rivals at that. Besides, Jagger may be bright and personable in person, but IMO he's a total jerk*-- as well as   Brian, look what the little creep tried to do to Jerry Hall and (presumably) their children not so long ago!



*Maybe it's a least partly due to being such a puny little person; I think in his prime he topped out at 5'6"--only a little taller than I was back in the day.

Edited by mizscarlett43, 29 February 2012 - 04:51 PM.

[Defiance]

mizscarlett43, on 29 February 2012 - 04:01 PM, said:

I don't know that Jim "admired Brian Jones so much," but he was curious about him and I'm sure recognized him as a fellow musical genius. Also, as a music biz insider I suspect he was well aware (as I was not until Salli clued me in me recently) that Brian didn't quit the Stones, he was forced out of the band he had founded by the machinations of the Glimmer Twins, especially Mick.

As far as Jim being friendly with Jagger--are you kidding me? AFAIK they were only rivals, and not particularly friendly rivals at that. Besides, Jagger may be bright and personable in person, but IMO he's a total jerk*-- as well as   Brian, look what the little creep tried to do to Jerry Hall and (presumably) their children not so long ago!

*Maybe it's a least partly due to being such a puny little person; I think in his prime he topped out at 5'6"--only a little taller than I was back in the day.

You may not know this based on the fact that that you may not know Jim any better than the other board members here.

We know Jim as well as Ray or John knows him. Nothing is hidden from us.

Brian Jones is a Pisces. His birthday was yesterday, so it is fitting that he is mentioned.

The unfortunate part is that no one was allowed to make sure that the casket Jones was buried in did not contain coded messages since it was donated by one Bob Dylan.

If Dylan put coded-messages in his songs (something The Beatles would learn from him how to do), then he would also put them on this special-crafted casket.

Salli had said once that she saw pictures of the coffin and did not notice any hidden symbols....but of course she didn't notice them since they are hidden as well as being encoded. Even if she had seen them, she would not have recognized it as possible sorcery, witchcraft, or wizardry since she is not permitted to decode them in any instance of their usage.

In what context do you use 'genius'? Is it a throw-away word for you? Who else is given this title?

Jones brought World Music to Rock by way of North Indian Classical music before George Harrison ever did.

Would Jones have brought us Muslim music had he lived? The reason I ask this is that Southern Indian music is Islamic while North Indian is traditional Indian folk built around ragas.

Note: While ragas may have influenced Rock, there is no such thing as 'Raga'. 'Raga' does not exist. The proper name is North Indian Classical when referring to Ravi Shankar's sitar music.

Note II: Rock was killed by major label heads getting wizards to put cast a spells on the master recordings by The Doors and other top acts.  

Next to this is 'music journalists' blogging that The Beatles, The Stones, and The Doors were influenced by 'Raga' as if it is a genre or type of music.

The insistence of 'Country-Rock' ranks high in cause of death for Rock.

Edited by Defiance, 29 February 2012 - 07:02 PM.

[Shelby68]

Scarlett, do you give much credence to the story of Sir Mick visiting Jim at the Alta Cienega to ask his advice on performing in larger venues? I've always had trouble picturing that. But apparently there really was a sense of community among rock musicians back then (to hear Jann Wenner tell it anyway).

Re height: it makes me smile that, officially, all of these British rock stars are 5'11" - all of the Beatles except Ringo, most of the Stones, you name it. They all list their height as 5'11". Not that I blame them, short men get a lot of abuse, almost as much as overweight women. Though I doubt you'd ever see a woman wearing a t-shirt with the slogan "No Short Dudes."

[BallroomDays67]

New Entry: 6/6/70 - Django at the Elegant Parlor, Vancouver

Many thanks to MildEquator.com for the info!

[mizscarlett43]

BallroomDays67, on 23 September 2009 - 05:35 PM, said:

Awesome research, Jim4371. I haven't tried to put the pieces together yet, but happen to have a copy of "I Used To Be An Animal, But I'm All Right Now". I should have checked it earlier. It's Eric's original autobiography, published in 1986. In that book, he goes into a lot more detail about that night at the Fillmore, but there's no mention of the song "San Franciscan Nights". It was right after a vacation in the Bahamas, during which he decided to break up The Animals...

"I jumped on the next plane to San Francisco. The last time I'd been there it was still a land of beatniks and cool jazz. When I touched down I could sense the changes. Even at the airport kids were sporting multi-colored shirts, and open sandals, Indian headbands, long hair and painted faces.
I climbed into a yellow cab, handing the slip of paper to the young long-haired freak at the wheel. Looking at the address as he drove, he spoke to me, turning to face me, looking over his shoulder. 'Where you just come in from?' 'London,' I said, 'via the Bahamas.'
'You in the music business?' he said. 'You pegged me', I said. 'You playing in town?' he inquired. 'No, just looking around. Came in for a quick holiday. My girlfriend (Judi Wong) said there's a lot going on in town.' 'Well, she didn't give you a bum steer, there is a lot going on, there's a lot of good home-grown music coming out of SF at the moment, you'll enjoy it. In fact, if you're into some good blues and boogie, I'd stop by Bill Graham's place at the Fillmore, that's down in the old Haight Ashbury area. I hear they're gonna kick out the jams there tonight. Big Brother and the Holding Company, Country Joe and the Fish, they're all gonna be down there tonight. Take my advice - check it out.'"

(Lots of additional detail that basically conforms to what was written in "Don't Let Me Be Misunderstood")

"I was introduced to some of the Grateful Dead crew, and Big Brother and the Holding Company who filed past ready to take the stage. One of the guys yelled to Janis: 'Janis, about 45 minutes, we'll see you out there.'
A long-haired, dark-eyed, good-looking kid leaned in the corner, wearing black leather Western chaps and a huge Western belt and cowboy boots. The lizard king himself. 'Meet Jim Morrison.' 'Hi Jim, how ya doing?' 'All right, man. You guys working here or visiting?'

Forgive me for reviving another ancient thread but I don't know how I let this one get by, since I was online pretty regularly  in 2009.

Anyway, since he's a Brit Eric's terminology is seriously fucked here:  Jim would not have been wearing chaps (from the Spanish chaparejos) meaning the leather protective gear worn over a cowboys' fabric pants (which pants were often Levis, which date back to 1850-something) to protect them and the flesh underneath from the mesquite and cactus thorns cowboys on the southern plains and deserts had to deal with on a daily basis.

Jim was obviously just wearing his trademark leather pants, and of course the "huge Western belt" would have been the trademark Navajo silver concho belt.

________


On edit: oops, it's chapArejos, not chapErejos. Lo siento...

Edited by mizscarlett43, 17 September 2012 - 09:29 PM.

[flashing bliss]

Poor proof reading even if Eric thought of chaps as any leather-type of trousers.  Maybe the belt made him think of the wild west.   Western films, musicals and novels were commonplace here so Eric ought to have been familiar with what they were. British kids too dressed up as cowboys and chaps would have been sold as part of a play suit   I've no reason to think that you've heard of the 'Milky Bar Kid' but this campaign ran from 1961

Milky Bar Kid

Edited by flashing bliss, 18 September 2012 - 04:47 AM.

[StupidGirl]

mizscarlett43, on 17 September 2012 - 09:13 PM, said:

Forgive me for reviving another ancient thread but I don't know how I let this one get by, since I was online pretty regularly  in 2009.

Anyway, since he's a Brit Eric's terminology is seriously fucked here:  Jim would not have been wearing chaps (from the Spanish chaparejos) meaning the leather protective gear worn over a cowboys' fabric pants (which pants were often Levis, which date back to 1850-something) to protect them and the flesh underneath from the mesquite and cactus thorns cowboys on the southern plains and deserts had to deal with on a daily basis.

Jim was obviously just wearing his trademark leather pants, and of course the "huge Western belt" would have been the trademark Navajo silver concho belt.

________


On edit: oops, it's chapArejos, not chapErejos. Lo siento...

You're so fuckin" * my exclamation point* smart!
So,not to divert the attention off Jim's leather pants, Janis, you met her?
oh, and can't think when i drink; what did country joe & the fish sing at woodstock?
loved it.

Edited by StupidGirl, 18 September 2012 - 04:51 AM.

[mizscarlett43]

StupidGirl, on 18 September 2012 - 04:49 AM, said:

You're so fuckin" * my exclamation point* smart!
So,not to divert the attention off Jim's leather pants, Janis, you met her?
oh, and can't think when i drink; what did country joe & the fish sing at woodstock?
loved it.

Well, I wasn't at Woodstock (I'd just arrived in NYC from Illinois a couple of weeks earlier and didn't  know anybody so I had nobody to go with) but I HAVE seen the movie several times; IIRC it was the Fish Cheer. ("Gimme an F...gimme a U...gimme a C..." plus a song, some of the lyrics of which are permanently imprinted on my brain (or what's left of it):

Ladies and gentlemen, the Feel Like I'm Fixin' to Die  rag.

___________

PS: It's not smarts, it's just that I'm a cowperson and always have been so I know the gear and the lingo. Living in New Mexico for the last nearly 21 years doesn't hurt--plus I had my own horse when I was a kid and even used to rodeo a bit (barrel racing mostly).

PPSS: For some reason I can't get the link to work (to the "rag,", but you can just Google the name of the song to hear it.
____________


On edit: And no, I never met Janis. In fact--and oddly enough--I don't even remember knowing people who knew her, except superficially. I do remember having (what I thought at the time was) a good friend* who'd had an encounter with her on an elevator once, but that's pretty much it.

*Btw, It still amazes me, the people I knew from working in the music biz in New York and thought were my friends, who were delighted to have me and my then-boyfriend come from L.A. to stay with them a few days in the summer of 1971--except by the time we got to NYC Jim was in his grave and all of a sudden my "friends" had no time for me AT ALL. One hears stories like that all the time--but it's a whole different thing actually to experience that kind of treatment from people you thought were friends.

Ironically enough, my then-boyfriend--who was  a USC film student in 1971--has become something of a player himself. being credited as a "co-executive producer" of a well-known and highly-rated TV series. Wonder how my so-called "friends" would have reacted if they'd  known back then what he'd become? (None of them has ever amounted to fuck-all, as far as I know--but then, neither have I.)  

Edited by mizscarlett43, 18 September 2012 - 09:46 AM.

[flashing bliss]

BallroomDays67, on 18 February 2012 - 02:50 AM, said:

Thanks. I haven't read that book, but perhaps someone will chime in with additional details.

A classmate of Jim's sstates that he saw 'Ronnie Macdonald and the Offbeats' at the Club Log Tavern about 1960.   Ronnie (who sang in teen bands with future members of Jefferson Airplane) is certain of the very booth Jim used to sit in and take notes while they were playing.   He also says there are stylistic and lyrical coincidences in a cover they did of a Jimmy Reed song and Break On Thru.

http://www.lyrics007...7%20Lyrics.html

I've not heard their version to compare with BOT but would like to if anyone has a link that pre-dates 1967.

Sounds like Jim saw a lot of live music during his two and a half years in Alexandria and high on the list of probables is the Shirley Horn Trio and the JFK Quintet.  Tandy Martin is thought to have sung live at least once during this time.  Jim would have been 15-17 yoa and is not known to have sung but to have once recited one of his own poems before a live audience as he did more regularly a year or so later in Florida.

http://www.doors.com.../opsasnick.html

Hope that helps

[BallroomDays67]

That's really interesting. I was completely unaware of that one, and have added it to the list. Thanks very much, flashing bliss.

[StupidGirl]

mizscarlett43, on 17 September 2012 - 09:13 PM, said:

Forgive me for reviving another ancient thread but I don't know how I let this one get by, since I was online pretty regularly  in 2009.

Anyway, since he's a Brit Eric's terminology is seriously fucked here:  Jim would not have been wearing chaps (from the Spanish chaparejos) meaning the leather protective gear worn over a cowboys' fabric pants (which pants were often Levis, which date back to 1850-something) to protect them and the flesh underneath from the mesquite and cactus thorns cowboys on the southern plains and deserts had to deal with on a daily basis.

Jim was obviously just wearing his trademark leather pants, and of course the "huge Western belt" would have been the trademark Navajo silver concho belt.

________


On edit: oops, it's chapArejos, not chapErejos. Lo siento...

I love it/ my computer hasn't worked for awhile..revival... has a nice ring to it. MizzScarlett, did I just hear you cuss? So, Morrison actually , I think, hated the boots...don't know about the belt & leather pants.

[StupidGirl]

mizscarlett43, on 18 September 2012 - 07:16 AM, said:

Well, I wasn't at Woodstock (I'd just arrived in NYC from Illinois a couple of weeks earlier and didn't  know anybody so I had nobody to go with) but I HAVE seen the movie several times; IIRC it was the Fish Cheer. ("Gimme an F...gimme a U...gimme a C..." plus a song, some of the lyrics of which are permanently imprinted on my brain (or what's left of it):

Ladies and gentlemen, the Feel Like I'm Fixin' to Die  rag.

___________

PS: It's not smarts, it's just that I'm a cowperson and always have been so I know the gear and the lingo. Living in New Mexico for the last nearly 21 years doesn't hurt--plus I had my own horse when I was a kid and even used to rodeo a bit (barrel racing mostly).

PPSS: For some reason I can't get the link to work (to the "rag,", but you can just Google the name of the song to hear it.
____________


On edit: And no, I never met Janis. In fact--and oddly enough--I don't even remember knowing people who knew her, except superficially. I do remember having (what I thought at the time was) a good friend* who'd had an encounter with her on an elevator once, but that's pretty much it.

*Btw, It still amazes me, the people I knew from working in the music biz in New York and thought were my friends, who were delighted to have me and my then-boyfriend come from L.A. to stay with them a few days in the summer of 1971--except by the time we got to NYC Jim was in his grave and all of a sudden my "friends" had no time for me AT ALL. One hears stories like that all the time--but it's a whole different thing actually to experience that kind of treatment from people you thought were friends.

Ironically enough, my then-boyfriend--who was  a USC film student in 1971--has become something of a player himself. being credited as a "co-executive producer" of a well-known and highly-rated TV series. Wonder how my so-called "friends" would have reacted if they'd  known back then what he'd become? (None of them has ever amounted to fuck-all, as far as I know--but then, neither have I.)  

Hold on, just got to the part where you need to go to the bank.
You're an interesting writer? Did you go to Pardue *can't spell? You're funny too.

Edited by StupidGirl, 21 October 2012 - 05:15 AM.